PDA

View Full Version : never gymless or gravity advantage?



lycan
Sep 05, 2007, 05:07 PM
what book is better for bodyweight training ,never gymless by ross enamait
or gravity advantage by paul zaichik?
i want to gain mass and strength without going to a gym.
thanks for your help

Little Jew
Sep 05, 2007, 06:13 PM
GA all the way

XLift
Sep 05, 2007, 06:30 PM
You have so much free stuff here, there is no need to get a book. If you really want to get it than go with Gravity Advantage.

MainFrameSoldier
Sep 16, 2007, 08:45 PM
I own both of Ross' books. Great pieces of sports literature.

Fatman
Sep 17, 2007, 05:10 AM
Well, if you want to gain strength and size, this is a good experiment I use to determine which book offers better advice in this area:

1) Find a physique photo of Ross Enamait

2) Find a physique photo of Paul Zaichik

3) Compare them and see who's got more size&strength development

4) Order the book

The basic premise behind this simple test is: if you really know how to build strength and size... wouldn't you apply the same sure-fire method to yourself?
I would be more inclined to go for the solutions offered by the bigger guy. IMO, if this test is applied, Never Gymless is shown to be at least twice as effective as GA. Order that one.

XLift
Sep 17, 2007, 07:06 AM
Boxing expert and lifting expert vs a bodyweight expert. One is stronger in one way, the other is stronger in another way.

Little Jew
Sep 17, 2007, 07:12 AM
http://www.rosstraining.com/images/sledross1.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:a3o2lFTEwzbJHM:http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2006/07/16/412318/12210x139.jpg

Don't see the point

Fatman
Sep 17, 2007, 08:19 AM
Ross is not a lifting expert. Strength is an absolute measure, you cannot be strong in "one way" or another. You can either lift a weight/bodyweight or you can't.

If you really don't see a difference in the muscular development of Ross vs. the muscular development of Paul, then it doesn't really matter which book you get. I cannot help you.

MainFrameSoldier
Sep 17, 2007, 10:13 AM
http://www.elasticsteel.com/sitebuilder/images/sidesplit-341x252.jpg
this guy....


or this guy...

http://www.rosstraining.com/images/rossnew.jpg

I wonder who I will support?

Little Jew
Sep 17, 2007, 03:27 PM
I have all the respect for Ross, but I would not underestimate Paul's strength or Paul's knowledge. The tatooed guy with his shirt off is not always the strongest.

Almond
Sep 17, 2007, 03:32 PM
This guy doesn't look big, but he is sure strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1W8tCTd0Ek&mode=related&search=

You see what I am hinting at.

MainFrameSoldier
Sep 17, 2007, 03:59 PM
This guy doesn't look big, but he is sure strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1W8tCTd0Ek&mode=related&search=

You see what I am hinting at.

But can he put that strength into action off the bar?

Almond
Sep 17, 2007, 04:58 PM
Why not? f=f

Almond
Sep 17, 2007, 05:00 PM
Ross is not a lifting expert. Strength is an absolute measure, you cannot be strong in "one way" or another. You can either lift a weight/bodyweight or you can't.

If you really don't see a difference in the muscular development of Ross vs. the muscular development of Paul, then it doesn't really matter which book you get. I cannot help you.


strength=strength

Fatman
Sep 18, 2007, 02:58 AM
The original poster wants to build mass and strength. I just thought he should go for the option that builds both equally. Is Gravity Advantage better for strength? I don't know. I was just saying that if you want mass gain tips, go with the guy who has some muscle. The little guy in the video you posted up there also has some muscular development. A one-armed chin is an impressive feat, but it does come a lot easier to people who weigh in the neighbourhood of 110 lbs.

If it's strength you're after, there is another question you should ask yourself: if I had to carry a refrigerator up 10 flights of stairs, is this the guy I'd call to help me?

LSA
Sep 20, 2007, 11:53 AM
If anyone doubts ross' sstrength just go to the videos on his site...they are just as impressive if not more than the videos on this site(he even has one dedicated to his mass building program)....the dude is in phenominal shape.....for what it's worth i have never gymless and i bought infinite intensity just to support him and for a couple of extra tidbits...i have never seen the gravity advantage book so i cant really speak on it....

cheesedog
Sep 20, 2007, 01:51 PM
The best for you would depend on your goals. If you are into Combat Sports Ross's works would be perfect for you. If your goal is just strength and some mass gain from bwe only, then Gravity Advantage would be better.

gregusus
Sep 21, 2007, 06:17 AM
Which do you want first mass or strength?

These are two separate goals and you should either train in one or the other. I'm not saying that people who focus on strength training are not big, I'm just saying that increased muscle mass is a nice bonus for them. And vice versa that people who train to get huge muscles end up fairly strong, as they have to keep increasing the weight to continue to grow.

I would say pick what is most important to you, and then find out the best way to train towards it.

itzjaggz
Sep 21, 2007, 05:12 PM
ross uses weights..

Fit4Fight
Sep 27, 2007, 08:23 AM
Anybody have both books and can tell about the differences?
I own NG and donīt want to buy GA if 80% of the info and exercises is similar to NG.

aaref
Oct 27, 2007, 12:14 AM
Hi,
I own NG by Ross and he incorporates a comprehensive routine, strength and conditoning. He also talks a little about fat loss. My question is, GA or GAMax are they comprehensive, do they assist in fat burning or are they only for strength purposes only?
Thanks,
AAref

Dominator350
Oct 27, 2007, 09:10 PM
bodyweight exercise is not the greatest for building size. Most BW exercises are making muscle groups work together so that you don't get that pump feeling... you can gain weight but its harder i believe without muscle isolation exercises. This DOES NOT mean you can't build strength however. Ross has a multitude of strength exercises that you probably can't do yet... not only that he shows you how to progress in strength if some exercises are too hard.

I can't believe this. Gravity advantage max? what the fuck? I was about to start asking what the hell is this crap? I see a guy in some fucked up static hold? im like this guys a joke.... EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM SHOULD HAVE ROSS' NEVER GYMLESS.... Ive seen dozens of people asking questions that ross answers in never gymless. He teaches everything yo need to know... training that applies to military, policeman, boxer, mma fighter, or anybody interested in bodyweight exercise all the way to the poor bastard who is just making ends meat with no equipment, nothing.

And the most important thing. All i had to see was this on the GA MAX link... makes me goddamn sick... it does...
'Be prepared to shock your friends who will accuse you of secretly taking steroids and lifting heavy weights. They will not believe you that you can achieve such high level of strength using only your body weight.'

What the hell is this!? its promises thats what it is... exaggerations false claims! BULLSHIT... This man does not look like a bodybuilder... He does not look like hes on steroids... tell you the truth... he looks kinds weak. Ross gives NO promises... only that if you work your ass off and be consistent with your efforts, anything is possible. He is the proof...

Dominator350
Oct 27, 2007, 09:12 PM
bodyweight exercise is not the greatest for building size. Most BW exercises are making muscle groups work together so that you don't get that pump feeling... you can gain weight but its harder i believe without muscle isolation exercises. This DOES NOT mean you can't build strength however. Ross has a multitude of strength exercises that you probably can't do yet... not only that he shows you how to progress in strength if some exercises are too hard.

I can't believe this. Gravity advantage max? what the fuck? I was about to start asking what the hell is this crap? I see a guy in some fucked up static hold? im like this guys a joke.... EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM SHOULD HAVE ROSS' NEVER GYMLESS.... Ive seen dozens of people asking questions that ross answers in never gymless. He teaches everything yo need to know... training that applies to military, policeman, boxer, mma fighter, or anybody interested in bodyweight exercise all the way to the poor bastard who is just making ends meat with no equipment, nothing.

And the most important thing. All i had to see was this on the GA MAX link... makes me goddamn sick... it does...
'Be prepared to shock your friends who will accuse you of secretly taking steroids and lifting heavy weights. They will not believe you that you can achieve such high level of strength using only your body weight.'

What the hell is this!? its promises thats what it is... exaggerations false claims! BULLSHIT... This man does not look like a bodybuilder... He does not look like hes on steroids... tell you the truth... he looks kinds weak. Ross gives NO promises... only that if you work your ass off and be consistent with your efforts, anything is possible. He is the proof...

Dominator350
Oct 27, 2007, 09:46 PM
So why does this guy feel the need to sell different books on... Upper body conditioning... Full body conditioning... and atheletic conditioning... Wait... I thought all conditioning was athletic. And why would he sell one book talkin about how to exercise just one half of the body.

This man is trying take your money and fuck you around...

Almond
Oct 27, 2007, 09:53 PM
Strength doesn't equal size buddy. Have you every heard of tendon strength?

Appleman
Oct 27, 2007, 10:10 PM
bodyweight exercise is not the greatest for building size. Most BW exercises are making muscle groups work together so that you don't get that pump feeling... you can gain weight but its harder i believe without muscle isolation exercises. This DOES NOT mean you can't build strength however. Ross has a multitude of strength exercises that you probably can't do yet... not only that he shows you how to progress in strength if some exercises are too hard.

I can't believe this. Gravity advantage max? what the fuck? I was about to start asking what the hell is this crap? I see a guy in some fucked up static hold? im like this guys a joke.... EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM SHOULD HAVE ROSS' NEVER GYMLESS.... Ive seen dozens of people asking questions that ross answers in never gymless. He teaches everything yo need to know... training that applies to military, policeman, boxer, mma fighter, or anybody interested in bodyweight exercise all the way to the poor bastard who is just making ends meat with no equipment, nothing.

And the most important thing. All i had to see was this on the GA MAX link... makes me goddamn sick... it does...
'Be prepared to shock your friends who will accuse you of secretly taking steroids and lifting heavy weights. They will not believe you that you can achieve such high level of strength using only your body weight.'

What the hell is this!? its promises thats what it is... exaggerations false claims! BULLSHIT... This man does not look like a bodybuilder... He does not look like hes on steroids... tell you the truth... he looks kinds weak. Ross gives NO promises... only that if you work your ass off and be consistent with your efforts, anything is possible. He is the proof...



Fuck this! you're a freaking idiot dominator! you dont' fucking know what your'e talking about!!!!

It probably took you a while to come out with something stupid to say about what Paul Zaichik is saying about this program on his site... becuase if you did look at it at all you would see that he does say that "Everyone who honestly follows this program for a few months, has a potential to not only be able to develop a ripped muscular physique, but also muscular might, never before thought possible, without ever lifting weights. The secret of this program is the progressive loading of muscle groups through the use of one’s own body weight and gravity."

He's not claiming anything that's not possible, he's actually being very honest about what the program will do for you.

But all you can do dominator is come out with negative things to say about GAM and you DONT even HAVE IT!!!! Why dont you get it first you moron!

You're like a brainwashed BAFOON! Lots of times the smallest guy is the one that has most power, wheras all those Bodybuilders you're talking about won't be able to compete with that power.

So think before you speak!

Dominator350
Oct 27, 2007, 10:57 PM
Yeah... i don't know where you got the bodybuilder idea from... In never gymless he talks about these types of adds. Promises and secrets... Let me explain my logic through direct quote.
'Latest development in scientific progression plus a well calculated force of gravity is all that is required for tremendous gains in strength.'
What the HELL does that mean? exactly what? what is the latest development in science progression, a well calculated force of gravity? Sounds like over technicality of something fairly simple... why doesn't he just explain what the hell kind of training is in his book. Ya see what i mean?
I already used this in my argument i believe but you mustve already been trying to think of insults like 'buffoon' to hurl at me.
'I've got to warn you tough to get ready for accusations from your friends that you are doing steroids, as they simply won't believe you when you tell them that you've build your super human strength without any body building equipment, but only through using your own body weight.'
hes GOT to warn me... hes GOT to... I will be that fucking massive over scientific progression... cause you know bodyweight exercise is a new thing....well calculated force of gravity, get real man...

IF THAT ISN'T SHITTY MARKETING I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS... This is bodyweight exercise... and you call me a buffoon who thinks size is power? You know whats funny? Ross looks leaner then that guy. And i didn't mean that guy wasn't jacked. I meant he looked soft. say what you will man im sure he has SOME useful info in his book... what im saying is... bottom line... NEVER GYMLESS IS BETTER. not to mention he doesn't split, ya know, the entire body in half, trying to make you buy another book thats twice as much money as never gymless.
So go ahead!! do yer 590 degree splits and bend yer face around yer ass 19 times. I'll keep using my method!

Dominator350
Oct 27, 2007, 11:10 PM
I never talked about bodybuilders. This other guy did.I hope no more people get confused. Im actually surprised people are defending this i thought it was fairly simplistic, this man is trying to make money at your expense. He is the one promising YOU that your friends are gonna be asking you if your on steroids... Not me...
Youve clearly got the wrong impression of me. Im not some knuckle dragging jock telling you guys 'DIS BOOK IS STUPID CAUSE THAT GUYS BICEPS ARNT BIG!' like jesus, i thought i was bringing up valid points. so far ive gotten gross misunderstandings and people telling me size isn't everything... which i was aware of.

Little Jew
Oct 28, 2007, 07:45 AM
Yeah... i don't know where you got the bodybuilder idea from... In never gymless he talks about these types of adds. Promises and secrets... Let me explain my logic through direct quote.
'Latest development in scientific progression plus a well calculated force of gravity is all that is required for tremendous gains in strength.'
What the HELL does that mean? exactly what? what is the latest development in science progression, a well calculated force of gravity? Sounds like over technicality of something fairly simple... why doesn't he just explain what the hell kind of training is in his book. Ya see what i mean?
I already used this in my argument i believe but you mustve already been trying to think of insults like 'buffoon' to hurl at me.
'I've got to warn you tough to get ready for accusations from your friends that you are doing steroids, as they simply won't believe you when you tell them that you've build your super human strength without any body building equipment, but only through using your own body weight.'
hes GOT to warn me... hes GOT to... I will be that fucking massive over scientific progression... cause you know bodyweight exercise is a new thing....well calculated force of gravity, get real man...

IF THAT ISN'T SHITTY MARKETING I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS... This is bodyweight exercise... and you call me a buffoon who thinks size is power? You know whats funny? Ross looks leaner then that guy. And i didn't mean that guy wasn't jacked. I meant he looked soft. say what you will man im sure he has SOME useful info in his book... what im saying is... bottom line... NEVER GYMLESS IS BETTER. not to mention he doesn't split, ya know, the entire body in half, trying to make you buy another book thats twice as much money as never gymless.
So go ahead!! do yer 590 degree splits and bend yer face around yer ass 19 times. I'll keep using my method!





You do not have the book, do you?

I have both books. They have different purposes.

You really don't know what you are bashing. You said "This guy is trying to make money" Yes, he is. Paul Zaichik is trying to earn money. I am sorry, do you see Ross shipping the book for free to anyone?
I have a lot of respect for both men. Look around see how much Paul has contributed to this site. I live in New York and I spoke to people who went to Paul's seminars. They say good things about him. He knows bodyweight exercises in and out. So I don't know what got you abset, but you are wrong, unfortunately.

Dominator350
Oct 28, 2007, 10:28 AM
Alright whatever. I don't know... I bought never gymless cause it looked like the best thing out there. I never bought any damned book off the net but i was so impressed with this i knew i needed to have it for the coming fall when i had to move with no equipment. This mans a crazy athlete. Hes pretty much the reason i got into bodyweight exercise form the self sufficiency of his book. I don't know... maybe i went off a little bit. But you really expect me to follow stuff like 'be a macho man and perform BW exercises'. It seems... it looks like all he has to offer are not so impressive static holds and how to do the splits.
I really am sorry but this is all the website showed me at first glance.
I was not impressed with what exactly he had to say, either. Comparing his method of bodyweight exercise to pilates and yoga... Dividing body conditioning into 3 separate books is what i call trying to make money off of you. Alright?
None of you have bothered explaining what this guy has in his book.
I wanted to learn how to work STRENGTH and SPEED with next to nothing and now i know and have never been in better shape in my life. Or STRONGER in my life which is what the creator of this thread was asking about, if youll remember.
Once again I'M SORRY if i offended anyone who bought this book. To me it looks absolutely terrible form the link. I never needed advice on how to to do the splits.... its just something i would figure youd have to work at.
What it comes down to is.... I KNOW never gymless has many different exercises that build incredible strength and he teaches you how to progress through every thing.

Fatman
Oct 28, 2007, 10:58 AM
Please don't bash Paul Zaichik. He's a great contributing member of this forum and has offered his expertise on a number of occasions. I personally am not interested in his program, but have some respect for the guy.

What's the point of all the offensive language?

Little Jew
Oct 28, 2007, 10:59 AM
Alright whatever. I don't know... I bought never gymless cause it looked like the best thing out there. I never bought any damned book off the net but i was so impressed with this i knew i needed to have it for the coming fall when i had to move with no equipment. This mans a crazy athlete. Hes pretty much the reason i got into bodyweight exercise form the self sufficiency of his book. I don't know... maybe i went off a little bit. But you really expect me to follow stuff like 'be a macho man and perform BW exercises'. It seems... it looks like all he has to offer are not so impressive static holds and how to do the splits.
I really am sorry but this is all the website showed me at first glance.
I was not impressed with what exactly he had to say, either. Comparing his method of bodyweight exercise to pilates and yoga... Dividing body conditioning into 3 separate books is what i call trying to make money off of you. Alright?
None of you have bothered explaining what this guy has in his book.
I wanted to learn how to work STRENGTH and SPEED with next to nothing and now i know and have never been in better shape in my life. Or STRONGER in my life which is what the creator of this thread was asking about, if youll remember.
Once again I'M SORRY if i offended anyone who bought this book. To me it looks absolutely terrible form the link. I never needed advice on how to to do the splits.... its just something i would figure youd have to work at.
What it comes down to is.... I KNOW never gymless has many different exercises that build incredible strength and he teaches you how to progress through every thing.

I can understand why you reacted the way you reacted.

There are three different books. They all serve different purposes. If you want to know I'll take a minute and explain.

Elasticsteel book is for splits and flexibility. I think it's good that it's not together with other books. Not everyone wants splits and flexibility. For a little book it has a lot of info.

Gravity advantage targets only upper body. There Paul shows how to isolate different muscles with only body weight exercises. Say you want bigger biceps or bigger triceps. It's not like do close grip pushup for triceps or chin up for biceps. He actually shows exercises that work the muscles that you want. Me personally the book blew away because it showed me what bodyweight exercises can really do. I did not see that in Furey book, Pavel's book or Ross's book.

GAM is how to use total bodyweight in your exercises. I know this example been killed to death still I think it drives the point home. People do pushups and lift 70% of bodyweight. Why lift 70% if you can 100% or even more. The pictures on Paul's site look like static hold, but they are not. They are all bodyweight exercises. You can do static holds out of them if you like.

Ross's book contains standard exercises, but good programs with them. Paul's books have levels that work same muscles but at different intensities due to different bodyweight exercises for the same muscle groups.

Like I said the before they all have their purposes. If you look at BWC video's Paul gives a lot great bodyweight info for free. In my oppinion he gave away more creative bodyweight for free than any other author, expert, trainer or what ever.

So in case you just over reacted that's all good.

administrator
Oct 28, 2007, 11:08 AM
Guys this is a peaceful forum, lets not make it a war zone, please refrain from using foul language or else we'll have to penalize some of you... everyone's entitled to their opinion but you gotta keep it peaceful and respectful. THANKS!

Dominator350
Oct 28, 2007, 11:18 AM
If this is true what youve said this man seriously needs to work on his marketing. This is not the concept i was seeing form his website. The presentation was terrible, hence the aggression towards the recomendation of what looked like non practical nonsense.

Dominator350
Oct 28, 2007, 11:23 AM
The offensive language was due to the fact i... usually have offensive language.

zenbeast
Nov 07, 2007, 03:15 AM
I am new here.
Everyone dose things in their own way. Some times you need to use a scalpel and some time you need a broad sword. It seems that the bigger statement here is the price maybe should be the same for the whole package, top and bottom, front and back.
I have Ross's book NG... It's a good book. But i tell you just as soon as i have the extra money i will buy at the least 1 of Paul's books. So that i can see where the focus is and to see it his system works for me. I came here from a Youtube video of Paul, he has his own thing going on. Ross and Paul are doing their own thing. Remember......scalpel and broad sword... I'm not going to put either one here or there, it's not really like that, there's just a time and place for every thing....

Oh, and it would be nice if to see a discount , let's say for the holidays for maybe the members of this forum to get some discounts on any of Paul's stuff. So if your reading these forums Paul it maybe a good boost of faith in the bodyweightculture.com group.

Peace.

administrator
Nov 07, 2007, 08:39 AM
I am new here.
Everyone dose things in their own way. Some times you need to use a scalpel and some time you need a broad sword. It seems that the bigger statement here is the price maybe should be the same for the whole package, top and bottom, front and back.
I have Ross's book NG... It's a good book. But i tell you just as soon as i have the extra money i will buy at the least 1 of Paul's books. So that i can see where the focus is and to see it his system works for me. I came here from a Youtube video of Paul, he has his own thing going on. Ross and Paul are doing their own thing. Remember......scalpel and broad sword... I'm not going to put either one here or there, it's not really like that, there's just a time and place for every thing....

Oh, and it would be nice if to see a discount , let's say for the holidays for maybe the members of this forum to get some discounts on any of Paul's stuff. So if your reading these forums Paul it maybe a good boost of faith in the bodyweightculture.com group.

Peace.

Uhm in case you didn't notice the ads running on this site for Gravity Advantage MAX & Gravity Advantage by Paul Zaichik... he does offer a 20% discount to all BodyWeightCulture members... look up and you'll see it....

zenbeast
Nov 07, 2007, 11:12 AM
DOH!......

I am soo sorry.... I did not realize that if you click that link...yep 20%....
I missed it... Did i say that i was new here...heh..
Thank you for that.

Alboxing
Nov 07, 2007, 01:25 PM
bodyweight exercise is not the greatest for building size. Most BW exercises are making muscle groups work together so that you don't get that pump feeling... you can gain weight but its harder i believe without muscle isolation exercises.

This is a load of bullshit.
Have you ever heard of compound-exercises??Have you ever wonder why bodybuilders spend so much time doing squats, deadlifts, etc?

Trust me, your beliefs about training are totally wrong. In fact, the opposite of what you are saying is true.

You are showing ignorance in both areas ( strength training and bodybuilding ).
May be you are one of those trainees that spends hours doing endless repetitions at the leg curl/extension machine for mass-gaining. :rolleyes:



This DOES NOT mean you can't build strength however. Ross has a multitude of strength exercises that you probably can't do yet... not only that he shows you how to progress in strength if some exercises are too hard.

I can't believe this. Gravity advantage max? what the fuck? I was about to start asking what the hell is this crap? I see a guy in some fucked up static hold? im like this guys a joke.... EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM SHOULD HAVE ROSS' NEVER GYMLESS.... Ive seen dozens of people asking questions that ross answers in never gymless. He teaches everything yo need to know... training that applies to military, policeman, boxer, mma fighter, or anybody interested in bodyweight exercise all the way to the poor bastard who is just making ends meat with no equipment, nothing.

And the most important thing. All i had to see was this on the GA MAX link... makes me goddamn sick... it does...
'Be prepared to shock your friends who will accuse you of secretly taking steroids and lifting heavy weights. They will not believe you that you can achieve such high level of strength using only your body weight.'

What the hell is this!? its promises thats what it is... exaggerations false claims! BULLSHIT... This man does not look like a bodybuilder... He does not look like hes on steroids... tell you the truth... he looks kinds weak. Ross gives NO promises... only that if you work your ass off and be consistent with your efforts, anything is possible. He is the proof...
I own Never Gymless and Infinite Intensity from Ross Enamait, Elastic Steel book and dvd (splits/high kicks), Gravity Advantage and GA MAX from Paul Zaichik.

Personally, I use mainly N.G. + GA MAX.
Each of those books is very unique, and each one has its strenght and weaknesses.

Never Gymless is a bible in the area of fighting conditioning, periodization and some strength qualities.

However, speaking of bodyweight training, GA MAX is the best in developing max strenght with crazy progressions.

You said that you are hooked to N.G.
I doubt that you really understand what the book teaches. ( see quote #1 )

Dominator350
Nov 07, 2007, 02:02 PM
Ohhhh here we go. Buddy... The squat is primarily a quad exercise. Blood rushes into your legs so intensely if you do it right you should have trouble standing up. That goes for bodyweight squat or weighted squat.
The deadlift is primarily a back exercise... these aren't really best examples of compound exercise.
On a side note after much research and searching on this site i found some really good bodyweight exercises that get amazing muscle pumps.

Just cause i got reamed out for something i may have said a little too quickly without thinking all that well... doesn't mean you can tell me im an idiot for something i found to be true through my experience in training...

So take your books and your attitude and shove it.

LSA
Nov 07, 2007, 02:16 PM
Regarding the discount...i went to the site not using the link....and i got to the same "discount" price that i got from the link....it was priced at $40 down from $60.....is there an additional discount by using this board or is it the same?...it seems to me he's just saying it costs $60 to make u think u are getting a discount @ $40....

for those that used the book...are there really different exercises...i have a coupl of books(NG and pushing yourself to power)...i dont wanna waste money for a book that has the same exercises that i'm already doing....

Alboxing
Nov 07, 2007, 02:24 PM
Ohhhh here we go. Buddy... The squat is primarily a quad exercise. Blood rushes into your legs so intensely if you do it right you should have trouble standing up. That goes for bodyweight squat or weighted squat.
The deadlift is primarily a back exercise... these aren't really best examples of compound exercise.
On a side note after much research and searching on this site i found some really good bodyweight exercises that get amazing muscle pumps.

Just cause i got reamed out for something i may have said a little too quickly without thinking all that well... doesn't mean you can tell me im an idiot for something i found to be true through my experience in training...

So take your books and your attitude and shove it.

Squats and deads are primarily a quad/back exercises?
I think that you have never done those with a decent load.
Maybe with a 40% of 1RM load you can feel the exercise "only" in your quads ( you speak about burning, maybe you do high reps? ).

Go and try a overhead squat with a decent load ( around 90% of your 1RM ) and tell me where you feel it.

I agree with you that elasticsteel.net has too much claims and ads, but the products are very good.

Dominator350
Nov 07, 2007, 02:31 PM
So now youre insulting how much i lift? I do one legged squats i do bodyweight squats, and lower body plyometrics. I can't afford a gym right now man... I use what can i got 3 dumbells thats it.
Yer gonna have to clarify what 1rm is...
I thought we were talking about bodyweight movements now your talking about how you doubt if ive ever squated heavy. What are you even arguing about?

Celcius
Nov 07, 2007, 02:33 PM
Regarding the discount...i went to the site not using the link....and i got to the same "discount" price that i got from the link....it was priced at $40 down from $60.....is there an additional discount by using this board or is it the same?...it seems to me he's just saying it costs $60 to make u think u are getting a discount @ $40....

for those that used the book...are there really different exercises...i have a coupl of books(NG and pushing yourself to power)...i dont wanna waste money for a book that has the same exercises that i'm already doing....

I guess we need to change the banner to make it easier to understand... you need to use the code BWC20OFF at checkout to get an extra 20% off from whatever the current price of the book is. Hope this helps...

tanawana
Nov 07, 2007, 03:06 PM
This topic got me to order the book - Seems the discount is automatically included when you use the link at the page below also. About $31.00, can't go to wrong. I have Never Gymless, If you can afford it, it seems both are a good addition I'd assume.

LSA
Nov 07, 2007, 03:42 PM
I guess we need to change the banner to make it easier to understand... you need to use the code BWC20OFF at checkout to get an extra 20% off from whatever the current price of the book is. Hope this helps...

yes it does...

can anyone answer the second question?....i just dont wanna waste time/money on stuff that i already have...

Little Jew
Nov 07, 2007, 05:03 PM
GAM or GA are not the same as NG. GA and GAM are not for the same purpose as NG. Different program, different exercises.

Alboxing
Nov 07, 2007, 05:03 PM
yes it does...

can anyone answer the second question?....i just dont wanna waste time/money on stuff that i already have...

GA MAX has 12 progressions. Some exercises are in common with NG ( es. pullups, dips, glute ham raises ) but others are very unique and crazy!!!

My personal advice = take NG for all-around conditioning and strenght, and supplement it with GA MAX for max strenght

LSA
Nov 07, 2007, 05:20 PM
GA MAX has 12 progressions. Some exercises are in common with NG ( es. pullups, dips, glute ham raises ) but others are very unique and crazy!!!

My personal advice = take NG for all-around conditioning and strenght, and supplement it with GA MAX for max strenght

fair enough...i'm curious...i'll take a chance on it and see what happens...

Fatman
Nov 08, 2007, 12:54 PM
So now youre insulting how much i lift? I do one legged squats i do bodyweight squats, and lower body plyometrics. I can't afford a gym right now man... I use what can i got 3 dumbells thats it.
Yer gonna have to clarify what 1rm is...
I thought we were talking about bodyweight movements now your talking about how you doubt if ive ever squated heavy. What are you even arguing about?

Now, now... let's not get too agitated.

The squat (barbell or dumbbell) is an exercise that works just about every muscle you've got. A properly loaded barbell squat (80% of 1RM or above) will tax your hips and glutes more, due to the wide stance used and position of the foot (flat on the ground). It will also fry your lower and upper back and even shoulders from the isometric effort needed to maintain the bar on your back. It taxes the hamstring more than the quad (my personal experience, corroborated by what I read from people who squat much more than I can).

The typical bodyweight squat is performed on your toes (indeed, it's pretty redundant to do these flat-footed IMHO) and involves the quadriceps to a much higher degree. Back in the Victorian era weightlifters did high-rep weighted full squats on their toes, working the front of the thigh (quad), which developed muscularity but not strength (as it's impossible to perform this kind of squat with a significant load). With the arrival of Milo Steinborn, a German lifter who invented the flat-footed squat, poundages began to rise. This guy used to do squats with over 500 lbs... without squat stands (he'd stand the barbell on one side and get under it, then lower the bar lifting it simultaneously until he was in a bottom-squat position, an insane feat of strength in my book even at 220 lbs., let alone 500). Over time the flat-footed squat to parallel evolved into a powerlifting event (one of the big three, glute/hip/ham dominant), while weight-lifters opt for the back squat from a clean/snatch position (narrow leg placement) and go down all the way (this also tends to work the quads more).
The deadlift has been termed (and I agree) the best gauge of total body strength out of all the exercises under the sun. While primarily a lower back exercise, a heavy dead can work your lats, traps, neck, forearms, rear delts, hamstrings, even calves (check out the calf development of guys who squat and pull big and you'll know what I'm talking about).

Alboxing
Nov 08, 2007, 01:49 PM
So now youre insulting how much i lift? I do one legged squats i do bodyweight squats, and lower body plyometrics. I can't afford a gym right now man... I use what can i got 3 dumbells thats it.
Yer gonna have to clarify what 1rm is...
I thought we were talking about bodyweight movements now your talking about how you doubt if ive ever squated heavy. What are you even arguing about?

Of course we are talking about bodyweight books.
However, you said that exercises in which muscles work together are not good as isolation for mass gains.
In fact, the exact opposite is true.

Dominator350
Nov 08, 2007, 02:39 PM
Like i said im going form personal experience. Ive dropped the free weights, taken up chinups pullups one arm pushups and handstand pushups along with others strength builders, been taking around 150 grams of protein a day in powder alone, 3 eggs a day and bacon and to boot i don't work outside fulltime anymore i just sit on my ass all day and ive lost a noticable amount of bulk and its the first time ive dropped below 200 pounds in 2 years.

However ive never had more body coordination and control... i can understand why bodyweight strength exercises are so popular in combat doing one arm pushups in perfect form makes you feel like you can knock someones head off. Tendon strength i guess.

Alboxing
Nov 08, 2007, 03:34 PM
Like i said im going form personal experience. Ive dropped the free weights, taken up chinups pullups one arm pushups and handstand pushups along with others strength builders, been taking around 150 grams of protein a day in powder alone, 3 eggs a day and bacon and to boot i don't work outside fulltime anymore i just sit on my ass all day and ive lost a noticable amount of bulk and its the first time ive dropped below 200 pounds in 2 years.

However ive never had more body coordination and control... i can understand why bodyweight strength exercises are so popular in combat doing one arm pushups in perfect form makes you feel like you can knock someones head off. Tendon strength i guess.

Proteins are important for muscle growth.
However, there are much more critical factors.

Some examples :
1) Total caloric Intake
2) Workout frequency ( enougth time to rest and supercompensate? )
3) Training protocol :
for example, if I'm working with one arm pushups for max strenght and I can do 5 reps to failure, doing 5 reps x 3 sets won't stimulate any growth ( too low volume ). For mass, a 4 reps x 8 sets may be very good ( 32 reps total vs 15 reps total ).

This is just an example but the same can be valid for any other exercise.

Pushups and pullups are good, but you must progress to more difficult variations if your goal is mass.Doing endless sets won't do the job

dthncrnge
Nov 10, 2007, 10:37 PM
I have all the respect for Ross, but I would not underestimate Paul's strength or Paul's knowledge. The tatooed guy with his shirt off is not always the strongest.

True dat little dude.

Pitbull Boricua
Dec 04, 2007, 12:06 PM
Personaly from what i've been abel to see Ross method's are for fighters (Boxers or Mixed Martial Artist) and fisical aparence is the last thing in his mind,in fact that is something he dose not talk about what so ever.The fact that he is ripped is cause he worksout like a animal but his methods are for Strenght,Endurance,Speed and Stamina.

On Pauls case that is what he talks about of how you will be so ripped that your friends will acuse you of using steroids so on other words that what your getting a way to ripped and yes you will get stronger and in shape but not in the same level as with Ross methods.

So my conclusion is that if all you want is to look great go with Pauls book (GA).Now if you want to get in shape and look great go with Ross book(NG).

NeilC
Dec 06, 2007, 08:08 AM
Ohhhh here we go. Buddy... The squat is primarily a quad exercise. Blood rushes into your legs so intensely if you do it right you should have trouble standing up. That goes for bodyweight squat or weighted squat.
The deadlift is primarily a back exercise... these aren't really best examples of compound exercise.
On a side note after much research and searching on this site i found some really good bodyweight exercises that get amazing muscle pumps.

Just cause i got reamed out for something i may have said a little too quickly without thinking all that well... doesn't mean you can tell me im an idiot for something i found to be true through my experience in training...

So take your books and your attitude and shove it.

The squat and deadlift are compound exercises.

I would point out that getting a muscle pump doesn't seem to have all that much to do with building muscle as far as the current evidence shows. I don't think aiming for pump is particularly great way of training.

I do agree what BW is not the best for bodybuilding. If it was lots of bodybuilder would do it and they tend to use weights. The reason it's not so great is that it isn't challenging enough once you get strong. You have to add weights at which point it isn't BW anymore. Also weights allow you to add and log small amounts of weight over time which helps in a lot of training programmes.

olinek
Dec 06, 2007, 01:21 PM
I do agree what BW is not the best for bodybuilding. If it was lots of bodybuilder would do it and they tend to use weights. The reason it's not so great is that it isn't challenging enough once you get strong.

I don't agree with this. One of the reasons it isn't used is because it is TOO challenging. Progression isn't always easy, where as in lifting.. progress is usually just adding another plate to the barbell.

Also most difficult bodyweight exercises get much harder as bodyweight increases regardless of the strength gains from that mass increase, so this is contradictory to the nature of bodybuilding.

Fatman
Dec 07, 2007, 10:14 AM
BW progressions are pretty good for strength and size gain. Obviously, if all you ever do is pushups you're not going to see a lot of development. Also BW exercises are ridiculously easy for light people (even their harder variations).

IMHO the reason why bodybuilders don't use BW exercises is that isolation with them is pretty hard. Bringing up lagging bodyparts is therefore difficult, and the compound nature of the exercises can lead to overstressing the muscles, which leads to stunted muscular growth and a smooth look. Eg. a bodybuilder wishing to train his back one day, traps on another day and biceps on yet another would not have a large variety of exercises to choose from and would probably end up doing chinups, pullups and handstand shrugs, where there would be significant muscular activity overlap. This is the reason why many top BBers today ignore compound weighted exercises like the squat, deadlift and overhead press (even the bench is sometimes getting a bad rap).

The jumps in difficulty are also a problem to the BBer - going from a regular pushup to the one-armed variety is an enormous jump, and many don't get the subtle progression techniques required.

Dominator350
Dec 07, 2007, 10:43 AM
THANK YOU Fatman! FINALLY... Someone knows what the hell Im talking about!

oldtimer1
Dec 08, 2007, 05:02 PM
I have never gymless. It is worth the money. It was written by a guy who obviously works out hard with good result. It is interesting to see that his books are being used for ideas by other fitness pretenders in their articles. While there is nothing new under the sun his hard core approach with minimal gadgets is something that is refreshing. I just picked up a fitness magazine and they had car pushing for an exercise. Where have I heard this before recently? Maybe from Ross's book!!!

I think it's going to be a slow conversion with the masses concerning fitness. To many are stuck in that body part training mind set of bodybuilding. That's ok with me. Strength training is important but without conditioning it's worthless.

Everyone is looking the secret. The secret won't be found sitting in weight lifting machines isolating body parts. If there is a secret it's hard work treating the body ultimately as whole functioning entity. Ross knows the secret. In the crazy world of fitness/bodybuilding his message will get buried under all the nonsense that claims to be scientific.

All his books are worth the money. I have been involved with fitness my whole life. Ross Enamait knows what he's talking about. If he only knew how many magazine writers are reading his books for information to write their articles. The fitness crowd is full of steroid fools with temporary cosmetic physiques that seem command attention from the unknowing. Again, Ross is for real.

oldtimer1
Dec 08, 2007, 05:04 PM
I have never gymless. It is worth the money. It was written by a guy who obviously works out hard with good result. It is interesting to see that his books are being used for ideas by other fitness pretenders in their articles. While there is nothing new under the sun his hard core approach with minimal gadgets is something that is refreshing. I just picked up a fitness magazine and they had car pushing for an exercise. Where have I heard this before recently? Maybe from Ross's book!!!

I think it's going to be a slow conversion with the masses concerning fitness. To many are stuck in that body part training mind set of bodybuilding. That's ok with me. Strength training is important but without conditioning it's worthless.

Everyone is looking the secret. The secret won't be found sitting in weight lifting machines isolating body parts. If there is a secret it's hard work treating the body ultimately as whole functioning entity. Ross knows the secret. In the crazy world of fitness/bodybuilding his message will get buried under all the nonsense that claims to be scientific.

All his books are worth the money. I have been involved with fitness my whole life. Ross Enamait knows what he's talking about. If he only knew how many magazine writers are reading his books for information to write their articles. The fitness crowd is full of steroid fools with temporary cosmetic physiques that seem command attention from the unknowing. Again, Ross is for real.