The Fatman No-Weights Experiment (long)

[Fatman]

After missing out on my weight-lifting training all of last week (due to time constraints, long hours & overall laziness) and doing random workouts with bodyweight and rubber cable exercises everyday, I've noticed a few changes in my physique. Not only have I not lost any size (what? everybody knows your muscles turn to fat if you don't exercise them every four days!), but my muscles look more defined and... dare I say... LARGER? Even my long-lost abdominals are peeking through the curtain of late-night meals and fast food that has obscured them to a greater or lesser degree for the last 3-4 years.

Now I'm a guy with a commitment to weights that has lasted for several years. I enjoy lifting heavy and have converted to dinosaur-style training over the past year. I have also learned to incorporate bodyweight exercises for size and strength into my training, and have seen great gains in size and shape as a result. But going without weights for a prolonged period... will that precipitate a loss in the muscular size and strength that I've worked so hard to obtain? Will my new deadlift PR, set about a week ago, which I've fought so hard to achieve, disappear if I commit to nothing but bodyweight and funny colored pieces of rubber tube? It's funny how possessive a guy can become of those couple of inches of upper arm/thigh muscle. I guess we're all closet bodybuilders at some level of the subconscious.

So I considered a few factors:

1. If this method proves ineffective, what do I have to lose? I mean, it's not like I'm going to lose placement in the next powerlifting/bodybuilding contest.

2. Vacation/beach season is coming, so getting some fat off the midsection is definitely in order.

3. Maybe a break from heavy weightlifting is in order. Anyway, my bodyweight (96 kgs) will provide ample resistance on the hard BW exercises, so I'll be working in the strength range (cca. 3-5 reps) on those.

4. Cables provide a different type of resistance and "feel", but are still pretty darn hard to stretch (I got the Lifeline rubber ones, six cables in all - plenty of room for combininig for different levels of resistance).

It was difficult, but I made the decision: no weight training for two weeks (including last week), then perhaps one or two weight sessions a week for the next two weeks, after which I'm away for another two weeks (therefore no weights again). All in all, six weeks of BW and cables. After that I'll take some time to get back into the weightlifting groove and test my strength on the weights to see whether I've lost a significant amount of raw strength.

Yesterday was my first new workout day, and the session could be broken down as follows:

Pressing workout:

Warm-up: pike pushups at varying angles

Handstand pushups: 3 sets of 5 reps
These are not "real" HSPUs - those are still beyond my strength and skill level. One foot is supported against the wall, feet alternated on every rep.

Weighted chair dips: 7, 7, 10 repetitions
Used a backpack with cca. 20 kgs. weight.

Resistance band pushups: 3 x 10
Used my cable set across the back, hands pressing on cables for desired resistance.

Chest press: 2 x 5
Horizontal press using door atachment.

Then had to run some errands, training resumed after 23:00:

Resistance band overhead press: 3 x 8
This gets surprisingly difficult as the bands are stretched.

Resistance band overhead tricep extension: 4 x 6
Used same resistance as with previous exercise, had to lower reps.

Missed out on core training - will do that today.

[roudenleiw]

I don't know about your training plan but you definetely should put some kick ass conditoning work in there, and by conditioning I don't mean going to jog with your grandma.

Hill sprints, ropejumping, burpees, pushups, squats,... done in circuit manner will make you gasp for air like never before and if you clean up your diet you will look good for the beach.

Look at boxers or other fighters. Do those guys look bad ass? For sure. Do they do lots of max-strength training? No. So don't fear losing muscle.

[Fatman]

That's interesting; I was thinking of introducing some complex/circuit work with pushups (high reps), squats and cable exercises once or twice a week... like the "metabolic conditioning" stuff.

I'm not that concerned with losing size - it's strength loss that worries me. Fighters' physiques are impressive, but they usually don't carry that much size when in competition form. Also the big, heavily muscled ones use all known supplements under the sun, plus steroids (majority of them anyway). I'm limiting myself to one whey shake a day :)

[roudenleiw]

I think that you want to be in top shape, strong, powerful and tough as nails, right? If you have some money to spend, invest them in Ross Enemaits books, Infinite Intensity or Never Gymless.

I own both and I'm very satisfied. He is a conditoning fanatic and he gives lots of examples of really kick ass workouts. In Infinite Intensity he uses dumbbells, sleds, sandbags, sledgehammers and other tools but Never Gymless focusses more on bodyweight.

He offers a full 50 day sample program with one max strength session, the others are conditoning, endurance, explosive strength etc. But he also offers an 7 day shedule with 2 upper body and 2 lower body strength sessions. I'm planning on using that shedule as I'm a skinny bastard and I want to change that.

This might also be a good solution for you as you might keep the lifting and have the conditioning benefits. Take a good look at those books, they might be what you need.

As for the fighters they are what they are, meaning that a guy like me could never be a heavy weight fighter. I don't think that they use steroids, as max strength is the least of their concern and they don't want to pack on unnecessary mass because they have to stay in their weight class. But hey, I'd rather wanted to look like a boxer then a bodybuilder, even if I'm not very heavy (Brad Pitt in Fight Club anyone?). If you are a competetive fighter and you eat right there is no need for supplementation, but some shakes may be fine. Other than that I don't use any supplements either.

[Fatman]

I have Infinite Intensity and Ross' Ultimate Warrior workout books. His work is great for strength, tone and overall conditioning.

I appreciate your advice and agree with you about Ross. However, I'm not trying to look or train like a fighter, because I'm not one. I'm just doing this experiment to see what results it will produce: I intend to go back to regular heavy weight training after the planned time period.

As for supps and steroids, not all of them are used to increase muscle mass. Some give you muscular endurance, anaerobic capacity or just cut down your recovery time. Most of the MMA/UFC dudes are using them like they're going out of style (not to mention bodybuilders and strongmen). Brad Pitt is a nice goal to shoot for... but I have yet to see a fighter with his build. That's a body for the movies (and the ladies), not the ring.

[cheesedog]

I think your plan sounds great, and will be interested to see how it progresses. What are you planning to do for legs?

[Fatman]

Ahhh... good question.

Legs are probably the man reason why I haven't abandoned weights altogether - squats and deadlifts simply have no bodyweight equivalent. However, I tried a workout last week with nothing but rope pistols (where you hold onto ropes for balance, learned from Brooks Kubik's Dino bodyweight training - they eliminate the balance factor which still eludes me and you can still get a great strength workout) and one-arm cable deadlifts - I got my cable set and pulled both handles with one hand (regulating the length of the cable, hence resistance, with my foot). My legs were in pain for days afterwards - I find the one-legged squats more painful on the quadriceps than regular barbell ones. So I'll try that this week too, then maybe add a session or two with weights in the next two weeks.

Anyway, Day 2, 1 August 2007:

Pulling Session:

Weighted door pullups (backpack used) 6 sets x 3 reps
Door pullups are somehow much harder on the forearms and lats than normal ones, so I kept the reps very low.

"Sandbag" cleans 3 x 3
Not really a "sandbag", more like my "brickbag" - quick and very, very brutal.

Standing cable upright rows 3 x 8

Belt chinups 4 x 5
These were done using an old judo gi belt, hooked up to my kitchen door with my pushup handles securing it on the other side, door locked for extra precaution (after all, I'm a pretty heavy guy hanging off a belt). The end result is something between a rope pullup and chinup - very effective on the forearms and biceps.

Standing cable bicep curls 3 x 8

Standing cable reverse grip curls 3 x 8

Core work:

Cable twists 2 x 12
Performed with the aid of my cable door attachment - essentially, grab cables and twist from one side to the other using obliques only.

Cable woodchoppers 2 x 12
Simulate woodchopping motion with cables.

Kneeling cable pulldowns 2 x 12

Ab work was done in two supersets, i.e. doing 12 twists (each side), immediately followed by 12 w'choppers (each side), then pulldowns.

Edit: soreness experienced today: biceps, forearms and traps (uncomfortable), lats (mild). Triceps and shoulders also sore from the day before. Good stuff.

[cheesedog]

I'll be working into the rope pistols in a few weeks, good to know I'll have a good dose of DOMS to look forward too!

The sand (brick) bag cleans are a good one. I like sandbag bearhug front squats myself.

[Moonduck]

You will probably lose top-end limit strength. Limit strength is as much CNS as it is muscular. When you are not working limit strength, it dwindles. That said, it is not likely to take all that much to regain it, and two weeks certainly isn't going to do too much to it.

[Fatman]

Circuit time (cardio?):

A circuit consisted of fifteen reps of each exercise with a 10 sec break between exercises (usually just enough to adjust):

Pushup
Seated cable row
Situp
Back hyperextension
Squat

Seven sets in total (115 repetitions per exercise), one minute rest betwen sets. First couple of sets were so easy I thought I'd do ten, but by set five I was starting to really feel it and terminated the circuits after number seven as I was getting pretty light-headed.

[willsd676]

I found this site yesterday and joined right up - this is my first post. In fact, I have no idea if I am even doing it right...

Anyway - don't worry about losing strength with bodyweight training. In college I started lifting weights religiously. Never missed a day. I went from not being able to bench 135 to maxxing out at almost 300. Starting my junior year I joined Army ROTC and was faced with taking the Army PT test every month and was dismayed at not ever being able to max the push-ups. I had a friend who ALWAYS maxed them out so I asked him for his workout. To my amazement he replied the only weights he ever lifted were some moderate weight dumbbells for his biceps. I was floored because his tris were ripped! He then told me he did 750 pushups every morning - in sets of 50's. I never made it to 750 but I started doing them and worked up to 500 a day (didn't know a whole lot about recovery :) ). Soon I started maxxing out the push-ups every time too.

The amazing thing is I never touched any serious weights for almost three years. When I started my job after college as a firefighter I went into the weight room one day during lunch. For fun I tried to see what I could bench and, after warming up, pushed up 275. I was a little smaller than before, probably because of all the running that goes with any military training, but not a bit weaker.

P.S. When testing for the fire department, I did over 100 push-ups in 2 minutes and 18 pull-ups, then smoked almost everyone on the run - who needs weights?

[Fatman]

Thanks for your input. I appreciate what you said, but if you went from 300 to 275 I guess you did lose some strength. I know that by training with weights correctly (like you did), not taking creatine and that other supplement shit to artificially push your max higher than it's supposed to go, you can retain a lot of your basic strength, and your example shows that. I enjoy both weight and bodyweight workouts and have found them to be an excellent combination. Plus it's not my bench I'm worried about, as pushup variations can minimize lost strength on this lift - it's the squat and deadlift, where raw power is lost rapidly due to lack of adequate replacement bodyweight exercises. But as I said, this is an experiment and I'll see what happens in the end. Welcome to the forum and good stuff on your physical test results!

This morning's workout was as follows (leg day):

Rope pistols 5 sets x 5 reps
Cable one arm Deadlifts 4 x 5
One arm one leg brick bag deadlifts 3 x 3 (brutal)
Split squats (non-working leg on bench behind) 2 x 5

Will go back for some more later in the day probably. That's a great thing about BW workouts - you can do them inside the house whenever you feel like it.

Edit: added two more circuits of the following:

Rope pistol x 5 reps
One-arm one-leg deadlift x 5 reps
Rope sissy squats x 10 reps (okay, it's vanity, muscle-pumping work but it felt good :))

[Fatman]

Last day of week two:

Press day (work dispersed randomly thoughout the day):

Handstand pushups (well, the leg supported version) 5 sets x 5 reps

One-arm pushups (these I can do) 3 x 5

Chair dips 1 set x 10 reps, then with cables for extra resistance 3 x 8

Cable pushups 3 x 8

Tricep pushups with feet elevated (like tiger bend pushups, i.e. regular pushups but forearms on the floor) 3 x 6

Tricep cable extensions 2 x 10

To conclude the two-week phase of the experiment: I don't think I've lost muscle size, my arms especially seem bigger (this could be pump from the slightly increased repetitions, though). Overall feel and look more toned, but then again I also cleaned up my diet considerably over the two weeks.

In the next two weeks I'll be adding one or two weights workouts, mostly testing my strength in the low rep ranges (not pushing for a max - that wouldn't make sense). Exercises to be performed: squat, deadlift and overhead dumbbell press, perhaps bench presses and some assistance work. Will continue with the bodyweight/cable workouts also. Then I'm on the road in the first two weeks of September, so it's BW and cables again.

[Fatman]

Yesterday was gym testing day. Despite feeling slightly sore (I think I overtrained badly, because I worked out every single day over the two bodyweight-exercise weeks, even if it was just a couple of quick circuits), I headed over dreading the outcome of the experiment. The two exercises I was about to attempt were the parallel squat and the one-arm overhead dumbbell press.

Squatting felt bad from the start - plus there was nobody else in the gym and I was mentally unprepared to go beyond my perceived abilities. I worked up to seven pathetic repetitions with a weight that I had previously done 3x5 with (it pains me to write this, but the seven reps were a cumulative over TWO sets). I honestly doubt that I could have gotten a single with more than 150 kg. My leg muscles seemed willing to handle a much greater load, so it wasn't muscular strength loss, but my hip muscles were dying out when I was rising out of the "hole" and my knees seemed to offer no support whatsoever - they were bending dangerously inwards and seemed to be completely beyond my control. I'm hoping this will get better once I get back into the groove of the exercise.

On to overhead dumbbell presses - these were pretty much unchanged. I attempted a personal best of 90 lbs and just barely failed to lock it out with my right arm. So no dramatic loss or gain.

Disheartened by the loss of squatting strength, I concluded the session with some hang cleans and woke up this morning with total-body soreness. In conclusion, I can say that two weeks off the weights probably don't diminish one's muscular strength (or barbell-lifting strength, to be precise), but you tend to lose some of the neuro-muscular efficiency for that given barbell move. I assume that it'll take some progressive cycling of the weights to get back to where I was. Bear in mind that a weaker barbell squat doesn't necessarily mean diminished leg strength: it simply means that you're weaker in that particular move. There are more aspects to strength than lifting a barbell on your back. This is just the most commonly accepted one.

Another observation is the overtraining that occurs when switching from mostly weights to BW exercises only. I had heard it from pretty much everyone who's gone from a routine of weights to a bodyweight-only routine, and despite being aware of the consequences I repeated the mistake. The reason is that the feel you get from doing BW exercises is very different from the sense of obliteration induced by heavy barbell use. BW exercises make you feel elated and powerful, but they still tax your muscles and nervous system in the same way barbell exercises do (only you don't really feel it). It's perfectly possible to do high-rep sets of pushups, situps and squats on the day after your handstand and one-arm pushup training. However, it is still overtraining and has the exact same consequences as does overtraining with weights.

As for exercise selection and interchangeability, shoulder and pressing movements are pretty much covered with bodyweight exercises, and so is the upper back and lats. Deadlifts and squats, however, cannot be replicated with BW. Even the Naked Warrior, one of the best books on training with BW for brute strength, recommends introducing a heavy pulling movement (deadlift, power clean or kettlebell snatch) to compliment your pushup and pistol routine. Pistols aren't the same as squats, nor is the back bridge a substitute for heavy deadlifts. As for arms (beach training, anyone?) I was surprised to find out that the exercises with BW and cables was actually better for them than my weighted workouts (barbell curls and close-grip benches), at least size and shape-wise. So that's a positive note.

The plus side (which might explain my diminished strength): I actually lost around 4 kgs over the two weeks... mostly from the abdominal area (hoorah!). It's probably due to a much cleaner diet, but circuit training must have had at least some effect on it. So I recommend this method to anyone in need to drop a pant size or two.

Testing will continue this week. I think bench presses today and deadlifts whenever my lower body allows.

[cheesedog]

I think you're right about the neuro-muscular coordination thing. In my experience you lose it pretty fast, in a week or so, but when you resume a lift it comes back fast. That was an interesting experiment, I wonder how it would have gone if you hadn't overtrained a bit the last two weeks.

[Fatman]

Well, I'll have an opportunity to try again in September...

Did benches and weighted pullups (on a pullup bar this time) today and am extremely happy with the results. I thought it was stupid to go for benches the day after doing overhead presses (on top of having previously overtrained my pressing muscles), and it probably was. Besides, I hadn't done serious bench press training for about a month before going BW-only, favouring overhead presses instead. However, pressing and pulling were definitely up to par.

I picked a challenging weight that I knew I could rack with some cheating if my pecs and arms gave out (120 kg) and completed four perfect two-rep sets, adding another one with 115. In between these sets I did weighted pullups for sets of four (with 10 kg extra weight) and worked up to a single-rep set with 25 kg. I guess the weighted door pullups helped me maintain pullup strength.

Then I performed bench lockouts (partial presses from about 4 inches below lockout to arms-straight position) and worked up to 180 kg for three. When I used to do these the weakest point was my wrists, but I guess the rope (belt) pullups have taken care of that - my wrists feel solid. I finished with some arm work. Close-grip bench presses went OK, but it's been so long since I've done dumbbell curls that they felt really weird, like an exercise I'd never done before.

The overall result has reinforced my determination to combine serious BW training with my lifting. They compliment each other by taking care of the weak links, and in my opinion the experiment has proven this beyond doubt.

[hara_12]

Good posts Fatman.

You and Cheesedog are right about the squats. Just the change in the center of gravity can make a profound effect on squatting. BW squats your COG is located in the center of your pelvis (just anterior to S2 segement), but when you put over 200lbs on your back that moves up significantly which changes the mechanics of the squat. Even changing from front to back squats with the small changes in spine position makes a big difference in the mechanics of the squat and the load distribution.

Like it was stated, there really isn't any substitution for deadlifting and weighted squats.

[Moonduck]

I know that feeling well, Fatman, and it was what I was speaking of when I made the earlier post. You get out of the groove and have a hard time getting back in to where it feels 'right'. Luckily it isn't hard to get that feeling back.