High kicks in a street fight

[crazydan]

what do you think of these? I know if your in a bar they are not good because you can slip or get your foot caught in something, but if your at a basketball court would it be good to do it?

[Moonduck]

Generally, no. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time you are just asking to get knocked down if you kick higher than the midsection. Low, fast kicks are generally your best bet. Let's face it, you're talking a streetfight, so you have no idea what your footing is going to be like, nor do you know what your opponent is going to do. You you really want to raise your Center of Gravity and halve your support base at the same time?

[crazydan]

yah i guess if u high kick u are just asking to be charged. so as a rule of thumb only low kicks? I was just wondering because i see high kicks in UFC all the time. When I say street fights i mean like organized ones where anything goes, but were in like an arena kindof. where at the basketball court. but anything goes so do you think high kicks would ever work well in these instances?

[Moonduck]

UFC ain't held on asphalt. Asphalt hurts when you get slammed down onto it. People hold up the UFC as an example of how to fight. It's only an example of how to fight in a padded ring with breaks, a referee, weight classes, etc. Take those same guys and put them on concrete and watch the tactics change.

[crazydan]

lol. thanks for clearing that up for me. I am actually new to kicking(except stomping when on the ground)

[Celcius]

I guess to be the devils advocate you can say the following.
If someone doesnt' know that you can kick, they will not expect a high kick. They will also not expect a high kick on the street. They will protect their face, but only at shorter distance where your hands can be used. So at longer distance a high kick can be a effective surprice move, if you know what you are doing.

[koltz]

backkicks\tornado kicks done fast enough are quite surprising and often end the fight the moment it started.

you need a lot of agility and flexibility to harness thier power though , as we ll as speed.

strength isn't a factor sicne well , it's the strongest kick I think there is since it harneses all your bodys momentum

if your much taller then the other guy and you stand close to him a proper knee to his chin will end the job


if you lack the skill a straight or a shoulder ram \ elbows at close range are what you should use to start

[Moonduck]

Yeah, but the phrase "if you know what you're doing" is the key. Why spend valuable training time drilling moves that are generally too risky to even attempt? Sure, play around with it if it makes you happy, but you should spend most of your time on the bread-and-butter moves. Learning abunch of largely useless stuff will just add to confusion should you have to defend yourself. Drill the basics until you can do them when you're totally exhausted, heart is racing, adrenaline is blasting, you're totally distracted, etc.

Which, by the way, is another reason to not try high kicks in a street fight. When your adrenaline is raging, as it will be in such a situation, fine muscle control is really difficult. Now, what is easier to recover from, a badly thrown low kick that misses, or a badly thrown high kick that misses? Which move sets you more likely to fall over, even if the other guy doesn't touch you?

Now, if you have all the time in the world, by all means, spend hours drilling your swallowtail reverse kick. Me? I'd rather get as good as I can on the stuff that will work 90% of the time, instead of what only works 10% of the time.

[Sepanto]

Generally, high kicks are bad in street fight, because unless you are very skilled, they tend to knock you off balance. Also, high kicks have the tendecy to leave you open to a jointlock on the ankle if someone grabs your foot.

I prefer knees to the gut/grapes far more than I like kicks, though if you like kicking, allways aim for the kneecap, in my experince this is the best "Streetfight" option.

[cheesedog]

The general concensus has it right this time. Keep your kicks low and fast in a self-defense situation. Even my old Tae Kwon Do teacher said "High kicks for school, low kicks for defending yourself."

Spend your time practicing roundhouse kicks to the inside and outside of the thighs, sidekick to the knee, front cross-kick to the inside thigh, and low stomping kicks to the instep or inside or outside of the knee. Unless you spend time in a sportive arena don't waste much time on the fancy stuff.

[Moonduck]

The thighs are an excellent and underrated target. I've seen a thigh kick drop a conditioned fighter, had it happen to me, and dropped a sparring partner or two with a kick to the thigh. Lots of nerves and blood vessels run through the thigh, not to mention the value of deep bruising a muscle there. If you can't stand, you can't fight, after all. The thigh is also about as high a sI would personally want to kick in a serious situation.

[crazydan]

Well kickboxing im sure teaches you low kicks also. and since that is the only other MA i can learn besides boxing I might as well try it out. do you agree or no?

[Moonduck]

As far as I am concerned, it is almost never bad to learn new styles. You can find good technique in just about any style you train in. You just gotta figure out how to apply it to your body type and existing fighting structure.

[crazydan]

i have been doing boxing for about 2 months so I will wait a little while until I am reletivley good at boxing before I start picking up kickboxing.

[fogs]

High kicks only when a good opportunity arises. However i would suggest sticking to lower kicks.
Ide expect a good high kick will be effective on an inexperienced fighter, But on someone who is experienced it would be a mistake. High kicks will render you vulnerable to counter attack.

[Culps]

Many good points raised.

I agree if you use a high kick in a street fight, then unless you are used to kicking against pads/bags full contact a lot a high kick can just glance a blow from you assailant / opponent and then you are open to all sorts of counter. We do quite a bit of pad work and would never attempt a high kick (especially as i am only 5ft 7in). I would prefer to use joint kicks (i.e to the knee) if the situation really required max damage to the opponent for you not to go to hospital. I have not trained much thigh kicks but have seen them to be very effective in Muay Thai, K1 etc.

Cupls

[Moonduck]

Thigh kicks are great. It's a larger target that the knee, and not as hard. And, though many people don't care about this when in a fight, you have less chance of maiming your opponent, and thus less chance of facing a costly civil suit afterwards. And, honestly, a solid thigh kick will drop someone just as quick as a solid knee kick.

Thigh kicks are also usually round kicks, as opposed to most knee kicks which are thrown in a linear fashion, and thus thigh kicks are easier to hit with. Sweeping motions are more likely to strike than linear thrusting motions. You can also put more power into a round kick, as it has the rotational torque of the whole body behind it, as opposed to the straight push behind a thrust kick.

Additionally, the thigh has a number of very important nerve clusters. A solid thigh kick won't just generate a knockdown due to force and damage. It can literally stun you opponent, and drop them because they are insensate.

All in all, the thigh is probably my preferred target when it comes to kicks, followed by the shin/instep.

[cheesedog]

And also low kicks work great when combined with upper body attacks such joint locks and trapping and striking.

[fogs]

I once sparred (FC) with a british middleweight TKD champion. It took the first round and an axe kick on the nose to suss him out.
In the second round i knocked him over 3 times and he pulled out.
Fancy kicks look good and can be intimidating. once you realise how easy it is to get inside they become an opportunity.
However, I once won a very close kick boxing match on points because of a sweet head kick.

[Duffy84]

With all this talk of high kicks I'm starting to wonder if anyone has ever really fought in a real street fight. If what your calling a street fight is some dude on a basketball court getting lippy with you so you mouth off and now he wants to fight then your stupid and deserve your bloody nose. If what you mean by street fight is that your came to your car at night and you have your girlfriend with you and three guys followed you from the club or the bar and 2 of them have knives... well now your talking reality. Or how about the guy that you just talked out of fighting you comes back into the bar and while your downing your Guinness a guy grabs you by the back of your head and slams it into your glass. Or when your not looking you feel a sick feeling in the pit of your gut only to realize that the feeling is his knife in your back. Now this is reality and not only will your high kicks not work but neither will your jujitsu or your really good jkd. What you need to train for street fights is awareness and specifically awareness of danger and spacing and timing. Space is good timing is bad you get hit. Timing is good space is bad then you run into his buddies fist. Fighting is sucky and it hurts. Train to live if your going to be in rough spots. But NEVER train just to beat someone. Only train to live. Peace!

[daeinwolf]

With all this talk of high kicks I'm starting to wonder if anyone has ever really fought in a real street fight.
---Now that sounds just a tad condescending.

Now this is reality and not only will your high kicks not work but neither will your jujitsu or your really good jkd.
---And neither will your budotaijutsu. It's real easy to say that something will or will not work in a situation...but to be completely honest we have no idea what would and would not work because each fight is unique. TKD can grant you a great deal of advantage in a fight...if trained correctly. So will boxing...if trained correctly.

What you need to train for street fights is awareness and specifically awareness of danger and spacing and timing.
---And there are many styles out there that teach this. Hell, fencing is one the best out there at teaching someone to control space and take advantage of tempo. The point is that there are many ways to learn these things.

And for the record, high kicks tend to be a bad idea due to the simple fact that the head is an extremely mobile target. A kick thrown to the head and landed can take a guy out...but if it is missed then you have opened yourself up. It is easier to land leg kicks and torso kicks, in my opinion.

[Dominator350]

Duffy said it though man, i mena its probably one of the most realistic things ive read in this thread. Anyways last time i fought a guy it was my brother, hes like a taller meaner heavier and uglier version of myself... he tried to kick me... so i grabbed his leg with one arm and threw him through a bicycle into the corner of the room, where i proceeded to ground and pound... without the pound... well he is my brother... i mena i can't 'kill' him.

[Martial]

One thing you can always trust in, is the ability to sprint and run away when things get bad. Generally, if there are a lot of people around, a guy won't come at you with a knife. That'd be legal suicide. So in this case, boxing and some jiujitsu would be best, given that the conflict is in a place with some people.

If you're alone, and/or outnumbered, hope that you trained with sprinting/distance running.

[Dominator350]

That is considerable, but really, a street fight is soo unpredictable, so many different things that could happen, i argue with my friend about this all the time i go with striking and keeping your distance and he goes with grappling and paralyzing people, in my neighborhood though youd have to watch for knives, concievable on every guy its so sketchy. Your right though sprinting would be useful, besides running away... for knocking people out of the way, and booking, say if you were outnumbered.
Im surprised no ones mentioned a form of intimidation, after all a fight is the most primal thing to be engaged in, besides sex, and no training will prepare you for the adrenaline except experience.

[daeinwolf]

That is considerable, but really, a street fight is soo unpredictable, so many different things that could happen, i argue with my friend about this all the time i go with striking and keeping your distance and he goes with grappling and paralyzing people, in my neighborhood though youd have to watch for knives, concievable on every guy its so sketchy. Your right though sprinting would be useful, besides running away... for knocking people out of the way, and booking, say if you were outnumbered.
Im surprised no ones mentioned a form of intimidation, after all a fight is the most primal thing to be engaged in, besides sex, and no training will prepare you for the adrenaline except experience.

Agreed. Unpredictability is a hard factor to train for.

The problem with "striking" distance OR "grappling" distance is that if there is a knife involved and you do not run...then you will get cut. There are no if's, go ahead and assume you will be cut. At that point, your goal is to minimize the damage you take while subduing and escaping or damaging your opponent to the utmost degree. The former is much more preferable. Plus as we all know, it is extremely difficult to maintain any degree of distance in a fight unless melee weapons are involved by both parties which would necessitate a degree of distance. In many instances, trying to maintain inside dominance during a knife or club fight could very well be beneficial since at that range the most dangerous part of the weapon is behind you and thus somewhat nullified. The problem is bridging to, achieving, and maintaining enough control at that range to engage in a possible disarm.

Once again though, running is a great way to end most fights.

As to intimidation, the best way to avoid fights is to be confident. If it comes down to a situation where you could intimidate your way out...you could have easily ran away as well. By choosing to play your assailant's game you have given up the easiest route to ending the fight.

[Dominator350]

thats the thing i always thoyught about striking though. Not only is there a relatively safe distance... once your grappling you can't run... theres always the option with striking... not to mention grappling is wayyyyy too close man, too many vital organs and your face to protect when your that close...

[Big Jew]

A low side kick to the side of knee will buckle a leg like a snapped stick in wet towel.

[daeinwolf]

thats the thing i always thoyught about striking though. Not only is there a relatively safe distance... once your grappling you can't run... theres always the option with striking... not to mention grappling is wayyyyy too close man, too many vital organs and your face to protect when your that close...

True....but when you think of what is doing the damage in striking range: knife, club, fist, etc; if you can get to the inside of them it is very hard to utilize said weapons as there is not much room to utilize them to their utmost. Case in point, it is very hard to stab someone if they have bridged to your inside and the knife is extended past their torso behind them. They COULD make superficial cuts and possibly try to stab there but the leverage is all wrong and you are on the inside controlling their center at this point..I hope. Being that close is not as bad as you think and it is much easier to get there than keeping someone at a distance.

[Sepanto]

The thighs are an excellent and underrated target. I've seen a thigh kick drop a conditioned fighter, had it happen to me, and dropped a sparring partner or two with a kick to the thigh. Lots of nerves and blood vessels run through the thigh, not to mention the value of deep bruising a muscle there. If you can't stand, you can't fight, after all. The thigh is also about as high a sI would personally want to kick in a serious situation.

VERY VERY TRUE! a good low kick to the thigh can hurt as hell...

[olinek]

I'm all for high kicks.... assuming you have the skill to throw a proper one that won't result with losing your balance or getting leg caught.

I don't agree with the only kick below mentality. A high kick from a proficient kicker is a deadly weapon. A hook kick to the jaw or axe kick on the shoulder will often ko an opponent.

[daeinwolf]

I'm all for high kicks.... assuming you have the skill to throw a proper one that won't result with losing your balance or getting leg caught.

I don't agree with the only kick below mentality. A high kick from a proficient kicker is a deadly weapon. A hook kick to the jaw or axe kick on the shoulder will often ko an opponent.

Agreed. If you are skilled enough then by all means. But the head is still one of the smallest and most mobile targets you have.

[Duffy84]

Just a quick note to all who thought I was being a bit condescending... I was. And I apologize. I was in a bad mood and thus came off a bit wrong. I do agree with daeinwolf in regard that any martial art will provide you with a much greater advantage in a fight than simply not training at all. I also agree that any physical activity be it fencing or parkour will give you a very good training on space and timing. However I do still hold my personal opinion that because all fights are different one must rely not on the technique being used but on ones ability to move in space and time as well as sense danger. While any physical activity will teach you the former it is the latter that saves your life. Obviously running in my opinion is just as valid a form of fighting as killing your opponent. My only qualm with any martial art is has it been tested by years of battle experience and have they passed on something that worked in a ring with one or many guys in a fight over someones pride or have they passed on something that has saved the life of many, many people over the years. For me bujinkan just happens to be the art that has proven itself with over 2000 years of combat experience over many many battlefields and it still works. One can learn the principles of war only through war and while methods and weapons change, principles do not. Also our bodies know when they are in danger and we should try to learn what our bodies feel like when it's in danger. Walk into a room with 100 people and when one of them is your girls ex you will feel a difference in the atmosphere. Keep your head and don't fight for anything that isn't worth dying for. You may not be the hero with a great fighting record but your girlfriend will like your face better when it's not broken and dates are nicer when you don't have to look over your shoulder. Peace!

[Dominator350]

Dude don't apologize for saying what you thought, defend your point as best you can, and if in the end your proven wrong, then so be it. But personally i thought the same thing, is that a lot of people sound like they have never been in a really dangerous situation before, let alone making up a thread about using high kicks in a street fight.

[Fatman]

Chuck Norris can high kick in a street fight.

If you ain't Chuck Norris... don't do it. 'Cause Apple pays Chuck Norris 99 cents every time he listens to a song.

Seriously, movie stuff is best left to the movies.

[EvilOne]

The only thing good about the ability to kick high is when you kick low you will have more power.

[nready]

Well here is an example of kick to the head. Notice when they are doing it. They do not do it when the other person is dominating the fight as in when the other person is controlling there spine, and the opponent getting hit in head is usually off balance.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LK-23qBlMpg

Not that I would do high kicks just not my thing.

[Malkosha]

I've been a Martial Artist, in various disciplines for over 35 years. While I'm not the greatest fighter around I have picked up a few things from both practicing and teaching Martial Arts.

The idea that high kicks are useless in a street fight was probably invented by people who can barely kick. Its very close to the myth that weight training makes you slow and women ruin legs.

First off, if you are planing your movements as your fight progresses you are going to lose. Period. Fights are dynamic, happen quickly and you don't have time to think. A well trained MA doesn't have to "think" about a movement but instead the moves are so instinctual that, like breathing, it just happens.

I have seem people who can kick VERY well. They can kick you from 6 feet away, sliding across the floor before you know it as well as kicking you when they are up in your face. You can never catch the kick of a good kicker when ts coming in. At best, you can catch it coming out unless they hit their target, AT that point it's moot.They can throw multiple kicks in different directions, all while maintaining a solid and secure base. These people are Masters at kicking, not people who learn a few kicks and think they have it figured out.

Yes, high kicks can and do work in fights but you have to really know what your doing, you have to put in the time necessary for the movements to become instinctual and you must have the physicality to perform the movement.

As an example:

One of the problems people have with kicking high is a lack of power. Anyone who has kicked some can attest to the fact that the higher you kick the weaker your kick becomes. There is a reason for this. As your leg reaches its maximum level of flexible extension, your bodies protective mechanism slows that leg down so you won't injure yourself by over-extending it. The result is a lack of speed, lack of accuracy and a technique that is no better than a hit with a nerf bat.

By training you can overcome this natural defense allowing your high licks to be at full speed and power as you close in on your normal range of motion. I could go on and on about this but I'm sure you get the idea.

Don't buy into the idea that high kicks are useless in a fight. Do buy into the fact that if you want to use ANY technique in a fight, you must train that movement to become instinctual and the only way to do that is to put in the time. Years here people not days, weeks or months. High kicks can be valuable if you can do them. Just because you can't however, doesn't mean that they are useless for those for can.

[Fatman]

Sure, but even untrained people can punch in a street fight. On the other hand, even well-trained people might have a hard time kicking in a street fight.

I know several guys who high kick perfectly in a McDojo setting - Chuck Norris would be pretty envious. They would, however, never kick in a street fight. Even well-trained professional MMA athletes rarely kick above the waist. I trained MA for a number of years (although not even close to 35, like yourself), but what you learn in a controlled environment doesn't always work in a street fight, or a physical situation (I moonlighted as a bouncer while I was in college - some stuff was useful, about 80% of what I learned looked cool, but could be applied only on the mat). You have maybe a handful of moves that you master and that turn out to be applicable in real life. Many guys who were great in the ring or on the mat became overconfident, entered a "street fight" against a stronger, experienced opponent who knew two basic things - punch and block - and got their egos (and faces) bruised. It's like getting really good at Need4Speed, then jumping into your car and trying to all that shit in actual traffic.

I actually saw a successful high kick in a real-life situation once. However, this was a guy who'd trained in karate for a number of years and he "sucker-kicked" another guy who was unaware that they were about to start fighting. Knocked him right off his feet. Against an opponent who's actually aware of your aggressive intentions, it's probably not a good idea.

Martial arts are great at developing strength, stamina, coordination and dexterity. Plus they look cool. But IMHO McDojo stuff is better suited for the McDojo. Now that's just my $ 0.02.

[Malkosha]

First off, I regret throwing in that “35+ years of experience”. It’s misleading because time doesn’t always equate to quality. Lord knows I’ve spent much of that time making mistakes and I am far and away from being a great Martial Artist. At best, I can only be who I am. Then again, mistakes also hold some value. I try not to make the same ones twice. Unfortunately …. Anyway, this is my take on things. Don’t take it as Gospel because what works for me may not always work for you. This of course is the entire point.

I agree that an untrained person can throw a punch far easier than they can throw a kick. While both take considerable skill to perform correctly, kicking is, by its physical and mechanical nature, much harder to learn and even harder to become proficient at. Like anything else worth doing, you get out of it what you put into it.

As far a McDojo’s are concerned … I don’t even want to crank that one up because I tend to be long-winded enough as it is. Suffice to say that even in a McDojo, you can learn if you know what to look for. There’s the rub. It’s a matter of perspective.

Martial Arts are not a group activity. Whether its old school Okinawa-te to the new fad, MMA, the true Martial Artist stands alone. There is no “better” style. There is no “best” school. There is no master list of what works and what doesn’t. A true Martial Artist stands alone with nothing but himself and his toolbox. To a martial Artist, styles mean squat. Fighting methods mean squat. All that really matters is “Looking at what I’m doing now, am I adding to or perfecting one or more of the tools in my toolbox”? Anything else is not Martial Arts but either sport or an exercise in futility.

In my way of looking at things, a Martial Artist has a toolbox. In this toolbox are things that work for that individual. They may not be pretty. They may not be “clean”. They are however, with proper training and practice, ingrained into that person and when the situation calls for it they can open that toolbox up, choose the correct tool and put it to work without giving it a second thought. What once was technique now becomes instinct.

Regardless of what school(s) you go to, in the end you have to discover what works for you. The school setting is only a single place that can aid you. The idea here is that you only want your toolbox to hold the stuff that you can really use. While some tools are common among people, for the most part, people will have a different set of tools. When you train, you are in fact, learning exactly what tools do work for you and what tools are total flops. This discovery process will continue for a lifetime.

Some people make the mistake of trying rationalize whether something works or not. They try it a few times and say, “Nope doesn’t work for me” and then throw it away. Some never even bother to go that far and instead try to think their way through it. Very funny stuff because the only way to see if something works is to become proficient at it then put it to use in various situations. By then you will have the true knowledge needed to either keep it or throw it away.

High Kicks are also a tool. No better or worse than any other. To say that high kicks aren’t valuable in a fight without having spent the time (years) developing the ability as well as not determining whether they are for you or not, is a mistake. Never discard a tool from your toolbox that hasn’t been fully explored and developed and even then, remember that while this particular tool may not work for you, there are others who may find this tool a perfect fit. People should take care when they broadly proclaim this or that as useless. Personally, I try to never make blanket statements when it comes to Martial Arts … even though I still fall into the trap rather easily.

[Erik]

Have to agree with Malkosha on this one.

When we talk about what "works" in a fight, the answer is always personal, not general. I don't think anyone can say what "generally" works in a fight, because nothing generally does. Every fight is different, each person approaches fighting differently, and while some things do work better than others for any idiot who learns how to close his fist with his thumb outside the fingers (punching, by the way, is also a stupid way to fight: fingers and hands break far easier than heads, but everyone does it), the whole purpose of training in the martial arts is to learn to move beyond the "any idiot" stage and into something more.

Me, I don't get into fights. I'm 39 years old, I have a wife and a kid and no time for this childish bullsh*t. Of course, I'm also 6 feet tall (more or less) 200 lbs, and I don't go hanging out in clubs or bars or looking for trouble, so people don't usually bother me.

That said, if someone comes at me, I will look for the quickest way to drop them and end it so I can get the hell out of there. And if that means a kick in the head of the first guy so the others think twice, that's not a bad thing. Of course, given my training preferences I will more likely kick low, strike my way in, knock them down and look to break an arm or step on them, because that's what I train to do.

Meanwhile, I hope never to find out.

[cheesedog]

Man, this is a thread that just won't die!

[Erik]

Let's face it, we all like arguing about martial arts. It's just fun.

[wulfsun]

Maybe we should be more specific about what kind of kicks and from which discipline? My main style is kenpo karate, doce pares now but I've had over three plus years of taekwondo , muay thai and JKD concepts. I would not use any kicks higher then neck level. I've been looking at the Sanda side stamp kick and have been thinking about placing it in my arsenal.

[nready]

Let's face it, we all like arguing about martial arts. It's just fun.Wellllllll......... Could be!:rolleyes:

[wulfsun]

This thread can live or die ; that is not the point anymore. The real question should be this: Can I deliver a kick powerful enough to stop an attacker without telegraphing it? If I can slip one in , then I can work on slipping two or more in. If I can distract them with something else I can probably do it.

Capoeria, savate, sanda,wing chun, taekkyun, or whatever MA that uses quick, non-telegraphic kicks should be considered only as last option.

PS. I found that front jump kick to the face to be very effective.

[rgt6]

its a bad idea

[mma425]

i grew up in some pretty f*ck3d up neighborhoods in philly and in my experience, do what you have to do to get them down, and either run for your life or pull a "ground n' pound" on them. escape with your life or totally disable them. just depends on the circumstances. fancy stuff like high kicks, etc, will get you owned by your opponent.

[judojack]

MMA from Philly has the right idea. I bounced off & on for years. I worked at a goatropper clubs and strip joints mostly and I've seen a few good scraps. Honestly, I can only think of a handful of times where I have seen a guy get kicked in the head.

Moreover, I have studied Savate, Muay Thai, Kyokushin, & Tang Soo Do, and I have long legs & I have never tried to land a head kick. It's just not practical.

IMHO, boxing, Thai, judo. wrestling, & BJJ are your best bets to defend yourself (savate, kali, & krav have a little to offer, but finding a legit teacher is hard in those arts0.
Of course, there are many variables in 'th3 str33t' so I recommend avoiding street brawls if at possible.

[nready]

Yea, I use to bounce and judo or a throwing art works best in fights. Nothing says stop, like when the guy hits the ground from a throw, and the head hit hard on concrete.

[nready]

here is some real street fights:

This one might be to racist for this sight but I understand if moderator delete it. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mxhSaSl3Rmg

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU&feature=related

[Dominator350]

crazy video, but so true

[olinek]

Yea, I use to bounce and judo or a throwing art works best in fights. Nothing says stop, like when the guy hits the ground from a throw, and the head hit hard on concrete.

Lol nothing says stop like a heel to the face.

[nready]

Lol nothing says stop like a heel to the face.You never know what is going to happen in a fight one time I had to go talk to these young college kids, and ends up in a fight sort of. He tries to choke me out from RNC, I just kept hitting him in the stomach with an elbow, which I got from doing karate. It kinda worked, I had a sore throat and bloody nose, and he was balled up on the floor. He than threatens to kill me, not sure when he plans on doing that. Needless to say I hope it is soon to come, because this whole life thing just sucks. He would be doing me a favor on that one.

[Erik]

He than threatens to kill me, not sure when he plans on doing that. Needless to say I hope it is soon to come, because this whole life thing just sucks. He would be doing me a favor on that one.


Little depressed right now, are you?

[nready]

Little depressed right now, are you?It's a money issue and my lack of skill to get good paying jobs and that right now out of work. I owe like 50,000 in college loans that in no way improved my level of pay. Right now they are trying to get there money and I have no money coming in, also credit card debt that want there money as well. The money type down. To be honest I can't, and should not complain. Not really down.

[Erik]

It's a money issue and my lack of skill to get good paying jobs and that right now out of work. I owe like 50,000 in college loans that in no way improved my level of pay. Right now they are trying to get there money and I have no money coming in, also credit card debt that want there money as well. The money type down. To be honest I can't, and should not complain. Not really down.

I understand the money issue thing. Took me years to pay down my student loans (I got a degree in Theatre. What was I thinking?) and now I have a $340,00 mortgage.

And looking for work sucks. Done it too often and hated it every time.

For what it's worth, even if you're on welfare, arrange something to go to the credit card people. It gets them off your back. Also, talk to a credit counseling service if you are getting nasty phone calls. They can deal with the creditors and give you the peace of mind you need to get focused on looking for work.

Other than that, it's all about the resume and talking up your skills at job interviews. But good work is hard to find, so keep at it. Can I ask what your field is?

[nready]

I understand the money issue thing. Took me years to pay down my student loans (I got a degree in Theatre. What was I thinking?) and now I have a $340,00 mortgage.

And looking for work sucks. Done it too often and hated it every time.

For what it's worth, even if you're on welfare, arrange something to go to the credit card people. It gets them off your back. Also, talk to a credit counseling service if you are getting nasty phone calls. They can deal with the creditors and give you the peace of mind you need to get focused on looking for work.

Other than that, it's all about the resume and talking up your skills at job interviews. But good work is hard to find, so keep at it. Can I ask what your field is?Yes, is all I got out of going to college was a Associates degree in Electronic or what is on the degree is Applied Science degree. It in no way improved my pay. You know I have seen people that have no college get better paying jobs in the very field I am in, I have given up on getting a job where I live now related to that field. I live in the middle of America (Oklahoma), and there is no need for anything in computers or electronics here. Literally no jobs in that field. Most of the employers will not even pay the fields minimum here. They take an attitude if you have a degree here and are against hiring people with degree, that has been my experience.

I have tried one of those places, counseling services and they often don't pay the credit card and they still would call me, the credit cards companies so I have no plan of using those ever.

Owe, Good luck on the mortgage, Erik. I have always had a fear of having a house for that very reason allot of money. You write books correct?

[Dominator350]

That sucks eh When you have to move away to find work. i didn't want to move to the city to go to school but its the closest place.

[Erik]

I write in general. Books are my love and my goal, but right now I write and edit content for a web-based home services company. That's how I pay my bills while waiting for my first best-seller.

Sounds like moving is the thing to do to get the job and pay you deserve. Are there any career fairs for out of state stuff coming to your area?

Also, check on the web. Type in your work field and "wanted" and see where the jobs are.

Headhunters are another way to go. There's people who need your skills out there (hell, someone needed mine...)

Anyway, good luck, and once you're making good money, buy my book ;).

[nready]

I write in general. Books are my love and my goal, but right now I write and edit content for a web-based home services company. That's how I pay my bills while waiting for my first best-seller.

Sounds like moving is the thing to do to get the job and pay you deserve. Are there any career fairs for out of state stuff coming to your area?

Also, check on the web. Type in your work field and "wanted" and see where the jobs are.

Headhunters are another way to go. There's people who need your skills out there (hell, someone needed mine...)

Anyway, good luck, and once you're making good money, buy my book ;).LOL! Buy you book huhhahaha! Nice!

No not likely they will have a career fair here. I live about 500 miles south of Kansas City, about 400 miles east of Oklahoma city. I am right on the border of Arkansas - Oklahoma line. The closest city kinda a city is Fort Smith it is so backwards. This area still has people unable to negotiate a 4 way stop. It is one of the funniest thing I have ever seen. I originally am from Kansas City, Missouri. I once had a job that still was not up to what I needed to live but it was around 12.00 dollars an hour. The positive is down here we live in the middle of these Mountains, it is nice the view. That kinda out weighs the other negatives, plus sense losing a job in Kansas City living with family.

Hey, good luck on that best seller! You doing all your lists, and your write so much a day for practice right? If you are keep up the good work if not get to it man.

[Erik]

I don't write for practice. I write. ;)

Seriously, got the one book out, got a second that's finished that I will edit after I finish the one I'm writing now. My next major goals are getting an agent, and then going from having a small independent publisher to having a major US publisher.

After that, it's a matter of keeping the output strong enough to make it worth the time and effort, while hopefully the books pick up enough steam to generate a decent volume of sales.

I think someone once calculated an author needs to sell about 600 books a day to make a good living from writing. So it's going to be a while.

Of course, if I can pull it off, it beats working for a living, which is what I'm doing now. :)

[nready]

I don't write for practice. I write. ;)

Seriously, got the one book out, got a second that's finished that I will edit after I finish the one I'm writing now. My next major goals are getting an agent, and then going from having a small independent publisher to having a major US publisher.

After that, it's a matter of keeping the output strong enough to make it worth the time and effort, while hopefully the books pick up enough steam to generate a decent volume of sales.

I think someone once calculated an author needs to sell about 600 books a day to make a good living from writing. So it's going to be a while.

Of course, if I can pull it off, it beats working for a living, which is what I'm doing now. :) See I thought you had to constantly practice writing to write for real, did not know. Man that sounds like allot of writing for one person 600 books a day. You better get to work.:confused:

[Dominator350]

600 books a day... thats depressing. Maybe i should consider a career change...

[Erik]

Don't think of it as depressing, think of it as a challenge.

Kind of like that damn burpee thing :). If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

In terms of practicing for writing, the only way to practice is to write: stories, poetry, books, plays, instruction manuals, articles, whatever takes your fancy.

Write it, rewrite it, get people you trust to critique it, write it again, and start sending stuff out. The worst that happens is rejection, and the best is, someone pays you for your work.

And as soon as I have dinner, it's back to the keyboard. The goal is 1000 words a day (that's about 4 pages). I'm a little behind right now.

But my website is coming along brilliantly.

[boris]

in my experience, this is movie stuff. high kicks in practice? sure. but in apractical sense in these days and times? no. no higher than waist level in a real life situation.

[Big Jew]

:-D I'm Feeling like I'm interrupting some meaningful exchanges here!:p :rolleyes:


I've always been good with my legs. When you're a kid doing Martial Arts and you get flexible, all you want to do is high Kicks and go head hunting in your sparring sessions. at the age of 38 I enjoy fighting with my legs and taking heads. I've always been fast, strong, and flexible with my kicks.

As for street fighting. I haven't yet had to break out into a Jackie Chan scene
on anyone (probably never will). My preference is to kick with my shoes on or grab and throw assailants by their clothing into objects like fire hydrants or phone poles. I have no interest in punching someone filthy, cutting my hand on teeth and catching a virus. I'm a believer in minimizing touching in fights.

Too many people think of street fights as glorified sparring matches IMO.

[Dominator350]

a sparring match. thats one way to put it. Usually it looks like a damn mess, everything different form what you thought it was, and at the same time you feel your body getting weaker by the second, fists flying like mad, none of them connecting.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y

Despite the humour in this video, everythings pretty real, even though this is the standpoint of the attacker most of the time. He only mentions the kick to the groin, which is the most realistic considering you wouldn't fight unless you were in mortal danger. Otherwise he teaches how to defend against kicks.

[nready]

John Bluming(SP?) was his instructor. He has to be one of the most influential people of all of MMA fighting.

[Erik]

Just to toss another log onto this fire we can't seem to quit burning:

A guy I worked with had a knife pulled on him when he was walking home one night. He kicked it out of the guy's hand. Thus endeth the fight.

As I said before, it all depends on the situation.

[cheesedog]

Damn, he was lucky. That sort of thing usually only works in the movies or the dojo. The attacker was probably too surprised to do anything. That's the same reason I always carry a rubber chicken. They never suspect a thing.....................!

[thor]

I did karate for a while and i di Muay thai for 2 and a half years,why risk throwing a high kick which requires alot more co-ordination and balance when you could low kick somebody in the legs or midsection.I have taken kicks to the legs in mmuay thai and let me tell you they are the most underrated and painful strikes you could take.Also you could add a one of 2 punch combo easier to this strike.

[Erik]

Damn, he was lucky. That sort of thing usually only works in the movies or the dojo. The attacker was probably too surprised to do anything. That's the same reason I always carry a rubber chicken. They never suspect a thing.....................!

You're damn right he was lucky. Also, the guy in question was some homeless guy looking to take his wallet. Not exactly prime fighting material.

But you never know...

[nready]

I always carry a rubber chicken. They never suspect a thing.....................!That requires I laugh in spanish.


BAAHBABBABABABABABABABLOLROTHFCOPTERLOL!

[Dienekes]

MY two cents:

If your scared to use it DON'T USE IT!

If you want it to work MAKE IT WORK!

Consider how it works for you, be honest with yourself (you know if it will do damage or not). If you believe it will work for you in whatever situation you think its best for, try it. Get knocked on your ass (or out, god forbid) if/when you do it wrong, then do it some more. I think the high kick is a useful tool in the right hands.

[marksmarkou]

I once asked that question when i first started training and my reply was, "why try kick towards the head when you have some many good targets below (foot, groin, knee shin, hip)

[olinek]

I once asked that question when i first started training and my reply was, "why try kick towards the head when you have some many good targets below (foot, groin, knee shin, hip)

Because it can be a viable target. Why restrict yourself to kicking under the head. If an opportunity comes up to place a good kick on someones head ... why not? I don't know if you have ever got kicked in the head.. but usually it hurts.

[marksmarkou]

Because it can be a viable target. Why restrict yourself to kicking under the head. If an opportunity comes up to place a good kick on someones head ... why not? I don't know if you have ever got kicked in the head.. but usually it hurts.


True but i kick to the knee, groin, or shin hurst much more. plus in a street fight, they are usually fought at very close range and occur fast, leaving you not much time to land a kick to the head, but hey, if the opportunity is there, theres no reason why it can not be taken.

[Billaros_Vr]

In my opinion,a brazilian kick is the best kick that can be used in a street fight because your opponent will think that you throw a low kick and he will drop his hands.And then BOOM!!!

[NickH]

Agree totally. If you want to get yourself into a whole heap of trouble, try a high kick in a street situation. Stay with low kicks, stomps, knees etc. Hight kicks are good for tournaments, or as a workout, but no use in a real situation.

[fat2fit]

if u can do a high kick without them knowing you are going to do it (maybe they are fightin ur friend and don't know you will enter) then u can ko them with it easily, so it has a use in streetfight if u have suprise on your side.

not true u will always lose with a knife too. if there is something long and not too heavy handy (like a bat, umbrella, chair, anything long and not too heavy) you can keep stabbing them in the face/eyes (with the chair leg, umbrella tip or bat end) and they will not be able to get close enuf to use the knife. it probably won't defeat them but they won't be able to cut u either. if u have the bat u can follow up the first eye stab with a short swing and more than likely catch em off guard for a ko. still leave if u can tho, for all u know they might be bruce mohammed matt hughes ali lee and take your prodder off u, but unless they are unusually skilled it won't happen and if u can't leave it's a good option.

[tylerK]

Okay, a ton of ink has been spilt on this already so I'm not sure if my contribution will be much of a contribution.

The long and short of it is this: If you have the flexibility, control and power, a head kick can be an awesome way to end an altercation (e.g.: Gabriel Gonzaga's one shot kill of Cro Cop). It is unquestionably more difficult to block the power of a full on Thai kick to the head with a forearm than it is to block a lower kick with a leg block.

If you don't have the requisite skills, however, kicking high can be a liability.

Do what you know.

[emperor zombie]

most dont have the power to head kick someone in a street brawl. and besides, why kick when you can knee someone in the head.
if i was in a street fight, with little choice about the situation, my hands would be up. now if the guy threw a high kick i would side step and block and before that foot hit the ground i would either grab his leg or bum rush him.
if i bum rush him and get him down, time to stomp
if i grab his leg, hes getting kneed to the groin or dumped, them stomped.

watch some muay thai/lethwei fights on youtube, some but not much kicking to the head, at least not till the guy is tired. see how many are caught, see how many dont work , see how many are ko's.
there arent too many ko's
and remenber in a street fight, there wont be a ref.

[mark00771]

Unless you're called Cro cop forget it, its difficult to land, and it leaves you wide open for a take down, as has been said previously, Muay Thai is the best for stand up, low kicks which target knee joints etc, the thigh muscles etc. Spinning kicks, High Kicks etc, have virtually no real application on the street. Speed, Power, and aggression, are the three attributes to winning a street fight, and if it goes to the ground, which it most definately will, then a BJJ or wrestling background would be advantageous.

[leeb51]

i read a quote some time ago that is very relevant to this topic.

"kicking someone in the head is the same idea as headbutting someone in the foot"

i think that answers your question, it answered mine when i thought about this question.

peace out

[WinstonWolfe]

My view on street fights. Presume any guy who wants to hurt you in the street has a knife and wants to kill you, always.

Go for the knees, testicles, and eyes with whatever you've got as quick as you can. The best chance you get to surprise a bad head is in the first 5 seconds, and the difference between winning and losing is aggression and determination.

And get out of there as quick as you can, cos his friends maybe just around the corner.

[moak]

Don't kick high unless you want to get kicked in the nuts. If he kicks high, kick him in the nuts.

(knowledge gleaned from having been kicked out of almost every TKD tournament I ever went to for kicking their jumping spinning head-kickers in the junk, it was just too easy.)

Street fight's gonna end up on the ground, dude, and concrete DOES hurt. If you're gonna stick in there and fight, I'd get myself in the best position possible for when it goes to the ground.

[WinstonWolfe]

Don't kick high unless you want to get kicked in the nuts. If he kicks high, kick him in the nuts.


I agree Moak. I haven't been in a street fight since my early 20s, but of the two guys who tried to kick me above the nuts when younger, I was able to grab their foot, see one of them crash to the floor on his back, and give it to them both in the nuts and twist the cr(p out of their ankles.

One of the guys thought he was a martial arts hotshot but I caught his round house kick. The other guy was a tall lanky drunk, who was slower to get his leg up. He definitely did a knee meniscus or medial ligament with the foot twist.

[Shark]

Back when I was training in Hung Gar, my teacher always told us to keep our kicks at waist height at the highest. The thinking was that this is the point where your leg can hit farthest away. Personally, I always liked the stomp kick to the shin since the shin is basically some bone with very little muscle cushion the hit. Just my $0.02 worth ;)

[Kalan]

I would agree with the no high kicks on the street idea. Low kicks to the knee or inner thigh if you are at a distance, or a good quick knee to the groin or solar plexus if they get a bit closer, will generally stop a fight with less risk to you.

[demarcoa]

Well said the next UFC should be held in a concrete arena lol

[demarcoa]

I would use foot stomps, kicks to the thighs, knees, calves and knee blows. High kicks are slow and easy to catch unless you snap them back, which steals their power. Plus a high kick gives your opponent an excuse to hit you between the legs.

[emperor zombie]

whats so special about the high kick anyway? why not elbow his face in then knee his nuts up to his ears?

[Erik]

The only thing special about a high kick is if you pull one off, it looks mightyimpressive. Still, it's a low-percentage technique. Better to punch high, kick low unless you know you'r good enough to pull it off.

[olinek]

The only thing special about a high kick is if you pull one off, it looks mightyimpressive. Still, it's a low-percentage technique. Better to punch high, kick low unless you know you'r good enough to pull it off.

EXACTLY IT IS IMPRESSIVE.

The simple fact is who cares if you punched someone in the nose and broke it, and their eyes went all teary and they had to drop out of the fight cause of temporary vision less. This is boring. In fact the gentlemen could have brought a big pipe or oozie and ended it even faster.

Let's you are fighting cause you need to SAVE YOUR FUCKING LIFE. If this is the case.. the bigger the weapon the better.. The USA brought every physicist in the world to the desert and the result was 2 Nukes that owned Japan. No kicking technique developed over a thousand years helped those people.

To summarize.. the US understood how to make a martial art effective. Take the art out of it. This is an unfortunate thing. The art is being taken out of the arts.

But the truth is a high kick is fucking cool. If you are getting mugged by skinheads and you make a cat like sound and then whip your dragon tail and smack the skinhead straight the forehead with your heel.. he will drop senseless and the other gangstas will run. This is damn cool and honestly what the fuck is the point of living your life if you aren't gonna be cool about it. But not any shmuck can throw a nice snappy side kick that'll crack your skull. You have to train for it, and anything you train for you will improve at.

I realize every paragraph is inconsistent and this is just a silly post in fact. But I do have a point and the point is this. We already have ways of killing people effectively and they are far more effective than any kung fu. I would learn the high kick because it puts the jazz back into martial arts. Someone cracking a skull with a jumping spinning heel kick will get my applause over some geeks and white collar tits blowing up bikini island.

[Fatman]

But the truth is a high kick is fucking cool. If you are getting mugged by skinheads and you make a cat like sound and then whip your dragon tail and smack the skinhead straight the forehead with your heel.. he will drop senseless and the other gangstas will run. This is damn cool and honestly what the fuck is the point of living your life if you aren't gonna be cool about it. But not any shmuck can throw a nice snappy side kick that'll crack your skull. You have to train for it, and anything you train for you will improve at.

Skinheads are poofters, anyway, have been for about 20 years. Have you seen "In Bruges"?

[olinek]

Skinheads are poofters, anyway, have been for about 20 years. Have you seen "In Bruges"?

No, I looked over the plot cause you mentioned it and now I am confused.. (there is no talk of skinheads??).

But some neo nazi stabbed a haitian a pile of times here in Montreal recently.

[Fatman]

No, I looked over the plot cause you mentioned it and now I am confused.. (there is no talk of skinheads??).


Nah. But there's a scene in it that about sums it up.

BTW great movie... watch it if you have the time / opportunity.

[EvilOne]

EXACTLY IT IS IMPRESSIVE.
This is damn cool and honestly what the fuck is the point of living your life if you aren't gonna be cool about it. .
Thats Funny