Boxing for streetfighting

[crazydan]

I was just wondeing how good boxing is for a streetfight. I know that the punches are great, but for defense like blocking is it good. Basicaly bxoing blocks is like catching the punch. im not really sure if this works with knuckles. DO you guys think it is good or bad?

[Moonduck]

Boxing started out as bareknuckle fighting. Yup, it works. You just have to be a bit more careful of your hands.

[crazydan]

o alright. mainly when I fight I just doge or slip. mayby i will try o block also.

[koltz]

shhesh boxers around here think there so tough everyone else is shit ,
soem boxer pushed me in line today , I would make him fly out of the line if it was another guy but that boxr was a 150KG 6'2 fatass with his friends.........

bastards

if you think your going to to be that kind of "badass" then expect to be sitting in a cell for a while....

[Moonduck]

shhesh boxers around here think there so tough everyone else is shit ,
soem boxer pushed me in line today , I would make him fly out of the line if it was another guy but that boxr was a 150KG 6'2 fatass with his friends.........

bastards

if you think your going to to be that kind of "badass" then expect to be sitting in a cell for a while....

Assholes are assholes all around the world, eh?

I have noticed a tendency for some schools/gyms to attract/produce a higher percentage of assholes. If you have a particular boxing gym near you, the problem is probably there.

[crazydan]

my area we dont really have assholes we have gang members. I was just trying to figure out if when I fight them should I use boxing type blocks.

[Moonduck]

If you're talking about defense, yeah. Boxing provides some of the best hand-defense in the world. It's good stuff that doesn't require you to be lightning fast, and it doesn't take years to learn to an effective level.

The most effective part of the boxing defense is footwork and body moves. You've already mentioned slipping and dodging. I assume that you're fading as well. In that case you've got the basic tools you need.

The best tool is avoidance, of course. Not always possible though.

[crazydan]

yah fades is when you drop back correct? I knew these things worked I was just wondering if the blocks are actualy effective. example using the elbows to block body shots or to kind o catch the straight head punches. also how good is slapping away the the hooks

[Moonduck]

A fade works better than a slap to handle a hook. But, yeah, a fade is where you sort of lean back a bit. With a hook, it puts you beyond the range of the punch. With a straight punch, like a jab or a cross, it extendeds your opponent's reach to the point where he is outside his power zone.

Using elbows to block body shots rocks. Try it, it works right well.

[crazydan]

yah I know if you punch an elbow you break your hand.

[plancheismine]

boxing is good against an untrained opponent....but against any grappler they lose in the streets...unless they cheat and have friends....bu tother then that boxing is street effective for standing but it will be useless once the fight gets to the ground.

[crazydan]

not really bro. Your acting as if boxers are retards when it comes to anything but punching. we still know how to kick and grapple. we may not be as good as kickboers or wrestlers but we still could do it. Also boxing teaches you to take punches wrestling doesnt. boxing thus makes you tuffer. Also we can fight when we are getting grappled it called in fighting. Finally we get an insane amount of training just like wrestlers which make us strong so if we do have to graple we could just toss you. im a little tired so i cant name them all, but there are alot of other reasons also.

[plancheismine]

not really bro. Your acting as if boxers are retards when it comes to anything but punching. we still know how to kick and grapple. we may not be as good as kickboers or wrestlers but we still could do it. Also boxing teaches you to take punches wrestling doesnt. boxing thus makes you tuffer. Also we can fight when we are getting grappled it called in fighting. Finally we get an insane amount of training just like wrestlers which make us strong so if we do have to graple we could just toss you. im a little tired so i cant name them all, but there are alot of other reasons also.
:wink: sure buddy. boxers don't know how to kick or grapple unless they train in that..which they don't....even if they street fight a lot, their grappling skills will be nothing compared to a sub grappler or wrestler.
and maybe boxers are tougher in a different sense then wrestlers.
and if boxers want to come in and clinch...that is what wrestling is all about and the boxer will get taken down because the boxer doesn't train that

[crazydan]

well using your logic then wrestlers will get destroyed since they dont know how to punch or kick. just grappling wont do anything. and since wrestlers arent capable of punching they will lose. is this correct?

[plancheismine]

well using your logic then wrestlers will get destroyed since they dont know how to punch or kick. just grappling wont do anything. and since wrestlers arent capable of punching they will lose. is this correct?
no not correct....my logic is the wrestler will take the fight to the ground...which isn't hard and the boxer will get owned....but if for some fluke reason they can't get it to the ground the boxer will destroy the wrestler

[crazydan]

are u kidding me bro? A boxer still can grapple. mayby not as well as a wrestler, but he still could grapple. also while your going for my legs im knocking you out. also mike tyson would beat down any wrestller.

[Moonduck]

Boxers are trained to go to the clinch. It works well when standing, but they aren't trained to stop/avoid takedowns. Once you're down on the ground, boxing doesn't help. None of your punches will function properly, and thus you will have no power. The grappler, however, is in his element on the ground.

So unless you can score that one-hit knockout on the grappler on his way in, you had better be able to stop his takedowns.

[crazydan]

I agree that they wil be superior on the ground, but we still know how to grapple. just like wrestlers know how to punch.

[plancheismine]

I agree that they wil be superior on the ground, but we still know how to grapple. just like wrestlers know how to punch.
it's natural too know how to punch(some what), but not how to grapple :wink:

[Moonduck]

Some people take to grappling like a fish in water. Other flop around and just can't deal. I loved it. Some of my training partners, less so. Some people can't deal with the invasion of personal space, or other emotional baggage.

[crazydan]

you have to be retarded to not know hwo to grapple and trust me if a wrestler tried to punch me his hand would be broken with in two punches. then the fight is over. hes done

[vintu]

Why would anyone punch in a streetfight? You have your palms, elbows, forearms, etc. Why risk breaking the knuckle if you miss your target a little, losing out on easy, quick grabble because your hands are closed, and like a million more possibilities? Punching, to me, seems a little illogical, and be saved for the rings/schools.

[Moonduck]

Because in many situations the fist is the best weapon you've got for hand strikes. It has more range than the palm strike, and transmits more force that fingertips, ridge, etc. It can also be used with less chance of injury than all of the other possible strikes in the same range. Sure, for short range work, a palm strike is great, but you can't jab with a palm. Same goes for elbows, forearms, etc. The fist is the longest range effective hand strike you've got.

Also, proper training, conditioning, and target-choice will minimise chance of fist injury. You don't target areas that will injure your hands. You hit stuff that your hands will inure.

As to missing a grapple chance because your hands are closed? C'mon, be serious. Most people that are trained in grappling keep their hands neutral, and close them before a punch. If they're closed, opening your fingers is a fast movement, and con be done on the way in to make contact.

In the end, a closed-fist punch is the longest straight-line strike you got with your hands. Every thing else is shorter, generally by a coupla inches, and is usually not straight-line. Sometimes, it's best to just throw that punch.

As an aside, I've done martial arts and boxing off and on for 10+ years. I have never hurt my hands throwing a punch. It's not that hard to prevent that sort of injury.

[vintu]

lol, yeah the missing grappling thing wasn't really my main point, trying to emphasize, sorry.
If you are too far away to throw palms, but are close enough to throw a punch, why are you fighting from all the way out there? First of all, it's only like, what, three-four more inches that your fist can reach than your palm? Not really an insurmountable number.
Yes, you can jab with palm, in fact, I do a lot of the time. It works wonders (I'm cheesy :wink: ) If you want to jab with a punch, then use it for a distraction or move that will allow you to cover distance to use your bigger/badder weapons (again, elbows, etc.)
As far as target choice to not injure your hand, obviously you are going to aim for something that won't hurt your hand, but it really doesn't take much of a dodge to put your fist off target. I've seen many UFC fights, streetfights, hell even a few fights right before my eyes, that the guy punched, but his opponent either moved a bit, stuck up his elbow (in "Bullhorns" defense), or whatever, and the other guy injured/broke his knuckles.

Punching, in my opinion, should only be used more as a "distraction" than anything else. Now, I know that punching is first-reaction with a helluva lot of people. I don't deny that, and I don't deny that punches can lead to a lot of damage on your opponent. So I'm not really arguing that much against punches, I'm arguing for other things instead. In fact, a couple weeks ago at BJJ we spent 1 1/2 hours just on learning the pros and cons of the punch. There were many more cons, and we proceeded to learn about a million diffirent ways to basically break the guys knuckles without using much effort.

I hope I don't come across as rude or beligerent in my post, I definitely didn't mean to be. I've been in martial arts for almost 12 years now, TKD for the majority where I learned punch punch punch. After "expanding my horizons", in my personal opinion, I don't think punches are the way to go.

The End :)

[crazydan]

Welll thats why you punch to the body, nose, and sometimes jaw. very hard to break your hand on all those except the jaw.

[Moonduck]

If you are too far away to throw palms, but are close enough to throw a punch, why are you fighting from all the way out there? First of all, it's only like, what, three-four more inches that your fist can reach than your palm? Not really an insurmountable number.

3-4" may nto be insurmountable, but it is still an advantage. It's why you always see the "Tale of the Tape" in boxing matches. Reach means something. If I have a longer reach, and I can control distance well enough to keep my opponent at the end of my reach, well, I'm outside his effective power range. See virtually any of Larry Holme's fights. He had those freaky long arms and one of the best jabs in heavyweight history. He spent a whole lotta fights just keeping his opponents at the end of his reach.

Yes, you can jab with palm, in fact, I do a lot of the time. It works wonders (I'm cheesy :wink: ) If you want to jab with a punch, then use it for a distraction or move that will allow you to cover distance to use your bigger/badder weapons (again, elbows, etc.)

*shrug* Maybe it works for you and not for me. I find that I cannot effectively get anywhere even remotely close to the speed of a regular jab with a palm strike. Also, with a jab you're using les spower anyway, so the chances of injury are a lot less.

As far as target choice to not injure your hand, obviously you are going to aim for something that won't hurt your hand, but it really doesn't take much of a dodge to put your fist off target. I've seen many UFC fights, streetfights, hell even a few fights right before my eyes, that the guy punched, but his opponent either moved a bit, stuck up his elbow (in "Bullhorns" defense), or whatever, and the other guy injured/broke his knuckles.

I agree with you mostly, but that gets into an escalating "what if". Any attack can be demolished in one way or another. Palm strikes leave you fingers and wrists far more exposed to locks, for example. Comparing active defense is pretty relative.

Punching, in my opinion, should only be used more as a "distraction" than anything else. Now, I know that punching is first-reaction with a helluva lot of people. I don't deny that, and I don't deny that punches can lead to a lot of damage on your opponent. So I'm not really arguing that much against punches, I'm arguing for other things instead. In fact, a couple weeks ago at BJJ we spent 1 1/2 hours just on learning the pros and cons of the punch. There were many more cons, and we proceeded to learn about a million diffirent ways to basically break the guys knuckles without using much effort.

Call me crazy, but I'd have to say that BJJ class isn't the best place to learn about punching. Their a bit biased, being a grappling art. I wouldn't have asked my sombo instructor about punching for the same reason. Well, I would've, but only because he also did MT and JKD. I wouldn't have asked about it during sombo class though.

As to more cons than pros, gonna hafta disagree with you there. If there were more cons than pros, you wouldn't see so many professional fighters punching in MMA competitions. There's a reason why the vast majority of top MMA fighters in the world still punch. It's not because they're lazy, or haven't rigourously examined their fighting styles. It's because punches work.

I hope I don't come across as rude or beligerent in my post, I definitely didn't mean to be. I've been in martial arts for almost 12 years now, TKD for the majority where I learned punch punch punch. After "expanding my horizons", in my personal opinion, I don't think punches are the way to go.

Nah, I didn't get the feeling that you were being hostile. I hope I didn't come across that way.

At the end of the day, discussions like this are largely moot, as everyone needs to figure out what works for them. An example would be your comment vis a vis jabs with palm strike. I can't even conceive of doing that as my body doesn't work that way. Yet I've punched a brick wall full on and did nothing more than skin my knuckles (note: my hand hurt like hell the next day, but nothing was injured). Different bodies work different ways.

And, as a final aside, I am in agreement as to "other things". I broadened my horizons as well. I did some boxin g and took kenppo for a while. My kenpo instructor decided to have a grappling day to illustrate what happens when the fight ended up on the ground. I did pretty well, but realised right then that I had a huge hole in my repetoire. I eventually found my way into JKD, kali-silat, and sombo and plugged those holes. Since then, I've been a strong proponent of being proficient in all four ranges. Gotta be well-rounded as a fighter, because specialization is for insects.