best martial art or arts for street fighting

[crazydan]

What do you think the best martial art or arts or fighting style or styles are best for streetfighting?

[Alpha Moth]

Even though my knowlede is fairly limited I will still share my opinion. I know that Tae kwon do, kung fu, karate are all bullshit, and wing chun is good if you get into a fight in a telephone box haha.

My best bets would definately be any style of boxing, muay thai or what ever. 99% of most fights end up on the ground so you might want to do a style focusing of grapling aswell.

The best style for all in one is probaly jujitsu, but then again, you don't really focus on anything.

If I had to choose anything it would definately be boxing, or a military type thing such as krav maga.

[crazydan]

yah thats what I was thinking. Anyone else haev other theorys.

[Alpha Moth]

Im wondering what are your foughts on the whole street fighting scene. Do you think you have improved with your ma training and bw exercises, do you see significant results?

[crazydan]

definetly. i was never a wimp, but after bw and ma i started becoming pretty hard 2 beat. im undefeated 1v1 without weapons

[Alpha Moth]

Ahh cool. I myself have never been in a fight since my teens, I just tend to avoid them. I do backyard fighting with friends, and sparing, but that won't really prepare me. I wonder how i would go in a fight, since im not a big bloke, my opponent will probaly under-estimate me i consider myself a good fighter.


I want to do boxing, but my parents won't pay for it, they pay for enough things, is it any good to buy a book and learn the basics from that?

[Sepanto]

Either GoJu-Ryu Karate or krav maga. One of my friends is a brown belt in GJK and he thrashed 3 guys far bigger than him. On the other hand, Krav maga is faster to learn and use. In karate it taeks about 2 years untill someone actually can use it reflex-wise, while in krav maga after 3-4 months a person is far better than what he used to be.

[Bikecop272]

I myself being a marital artist, would like to give a word or two.
In my experience with karate and Tae Kwon do, Most movement is based in pattern, Being taught traditional martial arts in a world constantly changing may seem irrelevant, but it is not. Most likely it could get you out of fights more than it gets you in them.
Plus when someone comes at you with a flail of punches, what better defence than to drive a foot straight into his Solar Plexus?
Then again thats my experience because along side being taught traditional ways of fighting, you can turn traditional into contemporary if you have the right mind set. I have been in plenty of fights to know that any martial art you do, it will give you the edge over your opponents.
But also to my knowledge and experience it might be wise to study or practice Defence martial arts.
Martial arts like Russian combat Sambo, Krav Maga, Hapkido, Aikido, Systema... Some are traditional but to my knowledge and experience these are most effective in fighting against attackers with unpredictably desires.

[crazydan]

If you have someone to practice with then you can learn it from a book. i learned kickboxing from a book with my brother and now i am 10-0 in kickboxing.

[Alpha Moth]

if i would learn boxing it definately would be muay thai

[crazydan]

try learning with someone then spar with them. thats what me nd my bro do.

[cheesedog]

Not fighting!

Of course, I know that's just not an option sometimes.

All I can relate is my own experience. I wrestled in high school, took Tae kwon do in college, studied judo for a few years and kickboxing for about 10 years and all of these are useful. (Especially the kickboxing and judo.)But for STREETFIGHTING really the best FOR ME was Okinawan karate, for one simple but very important reason. I learned how to defend myself against MULTIPLE attackers and attacks with WEAPONS. Everything else I learned was great for 1 on 1 encounters, but little or no mention was made of more than one. After all, in kickboxing, judo, wrestling, you FOCUS on 1 attacker/opponent. On the street that can get you hurt or worse. By multiple attacker drills and sparring we learned to keep a "soft focus" and move constantly, use 1 attacker against another, etc.

[case]

with street fights anything goes, so what you need is good stand up skills like kickboxing or muay thai and some jui-jitsu for the ground and you then you will be a bad man, sure fire way to win in a street fight.

[SparHard]

I'd recommend any martial art that spars full-contact: BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, and Boxing come to mind. If you can find an MMA gym, even better. Okinawan karate is probably pretty good, if the students are made to spar with medium to heavy contact, but an MMA gym will still teach you a more complete set of skills.

[Culps]

Difficult to say

The last time I was in an altercation I got hit on the back of the head with a beer bottle by a football fan whoose team had lost and he wanted a fight to vent his frustrations.

Question: what MA could have defended against this

Answer: Probably none.

Most times where I live if a fight went to ground someones friends would put the boot in and leave your face a bloody pulp. If you are BJJ trained and went for the take down you would get a bottle or ash tray to the back of the head so for me grappling is no good IN SOME CERCUMSTANCES, although in others it is very good.

Karate can be OK if the paractioner is extremelty skilled i.e at least 10 years in the art. Just lok at You\tube and search for Elwynn Hall and this will show how good a good karate fighter can be.

But for the average Jo on the street there will always be someone there better than you so you decide which is best for you

Culps

[plancheismine]

not one, but a combo of all. being well rounded....but if one, maybe jkd designed to be the best ma.
or wrestling takedowns (and defense), boxing skills, and some skills on your back. good enough to win. if you are a wrestler alone you could probably avoid being taken to your back and take them down...but still need some ground skills from on bottom....so some guard knowledge is neccessary...nothing much...just a sweep and a couple of subs.....and striking skills to finish them off from on top.

[Moonduck]

I'm with Plancheismine. A combo of enough skills to allow you to handle multiple ranges is the best bet.

And I would also add that you are better off knowing 5 techniques to a science than knowing 500 techniques in passing. Find what techniques work really well for you and practise the hell out of them.

[crazydan]

also planche JKD isnt that good unless ur fighting in a small closet or somthing.

[Moonduck]

Well, seeing as how JKD usually incorporates such things as boxing and wrestling, y'know, things you're trying to learn, I wouldn't say that it's only useful in small closets. Read up on JKD a bit before you make such claims. What you are probably thinking of is Ving Tsun, and the VT component of classic JKD is only only one of the four ranges. JKD is a true four range art.

[plancheismine]

I'm with Plancheismine. A combo of enough skills to allow you to handle multiple ranges is the best bet.

And I would also add that you are better off knowing 5 techniques to a science than knowing 500 techniques in passing. Find what techniques work really well for you and practise the hell out of them.
exactly! gotta be good at them and be able to hit them. the basics are a must :wink: like for the street have a good takedown and be able to hit it

[crazydan]

I copletly agree you need to be well rounded and the more MAs you know the better(as long as you are good at them)

[fogs]

Basics; punching, kicking, grappling.
Train at gyms where you will get full contact.
It really counts that you are familiar with taking blows. If not you be totally confused when someone gives you one.

[FantasyW]

I would say muay thai, but I don't have any MA experience behind my back like some of the guys here. Krav maga sounds really interesting. I guess it would depend on the situation(ie. number of fighters/weapons). I assume certain MAs are more aimed at 1v1. I guess if you're Tony Jaa, muay thai could be used for multiple attackers=P

[NuMack]

Like most things in life, MA have been made complicated, and over refined... Originally the MA was used in battles or other life and death struggles, weapons was primarly taught since you were less likely to fight one on one, yet now its mostly for sport and not war. And like the late Bruce Lee aluded too, everybody has the same biomachinics, so its all the same just w/ a different spin. I've been apart of 5 different MA, traded techniques with war vets and bouncers, own or read/watched over 100 books and video, sparred/rolled with countless martial artist, and know that "There is nothing new under the sun." Not even MMA, which ancients did, and even in the late 1800's into early 1900's known as "All in Fighting."

So like they did in ancient times train in all the ranges:Kicking, punching, trapping/clinch, and grappling range against multiple attackers. Either join a good MMA club or create your own, take JKD(which is less an art and more a personal journey) or Krav Maga, a Military Style which is hard to find, or take multiple MA and fill in the gaps! Oh, and learn weapons which is like gasoline on a fire. The skills developed with weapons trickle down to empty hands since weapons tend to move at a faster rate. A Phillipino arts are best since it hasn't changed much or been made totally sport, and sticks and blades are the most common improvised weapons. And that should get you squared away!

The Mack

[Boxhead]

I would say Muay Thai and Judo based on training with more experience martial artists. Elbow and knee strikes are more accurate and powerful than punches IMO. Judo teaches a lot of takedowns/throws. I have been thrown onto mats. Most people on the streets don't know how to break fall. I can't imagine what it would feel like being thrown onto cement by an experienced Judo practioner. :(

[crazydan]

lol. yah that would realy hurt. I started taking boxing and am begging to learn a little kickboxing. I think I should be good with knowing a few punches, low kicks, med kicks, and high kicks. Im also learning a few knee and elbow strikes.

[m0nonoke]

I was attacked by two peeps in Baker Street recently, for no reason. This was the first time I'd been involved in a fight in around 15 years, however since then I have been training hard and am now a qualified Wing Chun instructor. Even though most of my training went out the window as soon as the adrenaline kicked in, I still remembered the chain punch, and it was a totally natural reaction.

The two peeps walked away a bloody mess, after around 1 minute of combat, and also were kind enough to leave their mobile phone!

[Sepanto]

m0nonoke is basically right. It is far better to have 2 or 3 tricks\attacks\combos that you are completely comfortable with and you execute automatically, than to have 50 diffrent tricks when every one of them creaks, and you can't do even one of them well.

[m0nonoke]

That's one reason the Wing Chun training method "Chi Sau" is so effective. It trains you to just react, without thought. This is essentially what happened in the fight.

[hagler]

I was attacked by two peeps in Baker Street recently, for no reason. This was the first time I'd been involved in a fight in around 15 years, however since then I have been training hard and am now a qualified Wing Chun instructor. Even though most of my training went out the window as soon as the adrenaline kicked in, I still remembered the chain punch, and it was a totally natural reaction.

The two peeps walked away a bloody mess, after around 1 minute of combat, and also were kind enough to leave their mobile phone!

is wing chuns chain punch similier to jkd (chain blast) ?

[m0nonoke]

is wing chuns chain punch similier to jkd (chain blast) ?

I guess so, a large portion of JKD is based on Wing Chun

[mrcheese]

I gotta say that I have trained in a few arts. But all in all what you do will depend on who you are up aginst. If its some pussy a push and a verbal will normally scare the crap out of him and send him running, A big mean mutha, say you come up against a Tito or something your gunna hope you can run, ( the guy gets paid to smash people for christ sake) if its some one who you think you can take you gotta ask your self a qusetion can I really or is this guy hiding something i dont know about. I did a seminar with Dan insanato, The one thing i got from him is you can be a excellent fighter/knife fighter/street what ever but who knows what the other guy might produce. The best thing to do is be smart be aware of your surronds, use what ever you have at your disposel, there are no rules in a REAL street fight so play dirty no matter what.

[Big Jew]

In a true street altercation where I am attacked out of the nowhere.
I am more then likely not going for a glorified sparring session.

Eye rakes, jaw rips, collar bone chops, low side kicks to the sides of the knees, throat strikes, floating rib yanks, get ahold of any limb and go for the snap. The list goes on.

And of course use my environment as a weapon.
A wall or fire hydrant to throw someone into or grab what suitable object is handy. Make it quick. make it bad.

I've never been in a bar fight or other type of heated situation that I couldn't diffuse or walk away from.

I think my Israeli brethren here would agree...

[mrcheese]

HERE, HERE. even your aussie brothers think the same. see russel crowe ( the knob)

[Big Jew]

HERE, HERE. even your aussie brothers think the same. see russel crowe ( the knob)

Well Right On my Aussie Brotha! (I'll pass on the russel crowe research though)

[mrcheese]

reference to phone incident in hotel lobby

[Ninja_Adam]

I do/practice/partake in (use whatever word you like) Mixed Martial Arts, and since everyone has an opinion, ill throw mine out too...

Its really not the technical prowess that matters in the end, but the will to act and the willingness to actually take a real hit. You here about karate blackbelts getting drop kicked because they do not train combatively, it is a lot of kata, and semi-contact sparring.

Do MMA, you'll love it. Great people, great workout. Make sure you do ground work. I am no where near the strongest or largest person out there, and more often then not, I would avoid a boxing match or some sort of stand up engagement. I would take it to the ground and use a submission hold and break something.

Grappling does not always mean taking the fight to the ground. Sometimes it means learning how not to let it go to the ground.

Big thing in any martial arts tournament, as well in any street altercation is not to panic. Panic=loss.

One last note, most people on the street will not choose to fight you in a deathmatch, but a fight were ego is on the line. They will probably avoid cup-checks and eye-gouges. This makes your life all the better, since no one really knows how to punch. Keep your punches straight, and use footwork, rotate your hips, and snap your shoulders, never muscle punches. Remember to shadow box in front of a mirror, and make sure every strike is proper.

If your injured and you cannot exacerbate the injury for the rest of your life, go do some sort of grappling training if you can. MMA is hard and it is for young people like I, you will not continue training in it for more than a couple decades. Grappling is not a walk in the park, but it is more forgiving than MMA.

Wherever you train, look out for basic tell-tale signs of McDojos, and poor instruction. There are schools in any martial art/system/style where someone is just out to separate your money from you.

I want to try Krav Maga, but I cannot find any schools in my area with the art/system/style.

One last note, do not attempt to mimic techniques that you've seen on the UFC without learning it first. The rear-naked choke is a perfect example. It is hardcore effective, but if you do not know how to do it, its a waste of your time. Just look up techniques on You-Tube.

[mrcheese]

ninja_adam you are right on the money

[Sepanto]

Ninja_Adam has a good point about grappling being to avoid being taken down... However Technichal prowess does matter, only that there are things which matter more...

Technical prowess matters in that that it doesn't matter how crazy are you or how unafraid to get it if you are caught in a wrist/elbow lock, you're toast.

[Ninja_Adam]

I should of taken a look a my post before I hit the 'submit' button. I meant that you must be willing to actually fight a real battle. Technique is extremely important, but if you do not have the heart or a mindset conducive to actually carrying out the technique in battle, then the technique becomes irrelevant.

[Sepanto]

Oh well I agree with you about the mindset. However Mindset can actually be bad for you incase you haven't got perfect techinque, and attempt somethign that's beyond your skills just to bust your opponent

[mrcheese]

in the end no matter what, your fight or flight response will kick in. You hear about victims of serious crimes ( normally resulting in death ) the police usuallysay they fought hard to end. So when your in the midst of an incident/fight you will do what you have to and you will pull stuff out of your butt that you never knew you had. Technique doesnt always need to be applied, (note that technique is proven when used in a move it makes it most effective), but if all you can do is get close to it then that will have to do if it opens the window of oppurtunity. I think in reference to the original question if you get caught in a fight do what you have to and know your limits. You also need to understand that there is a conseqence of all actions. I think that is important to keep in mind also

[Toro27]

Some great responses to this loaded question already but I wanted to put my 2cents in.

The answer to your question is that it depends on to many factors to just say one style is better than another. But I have trained in muay thai and in Brazilian jiu jitsu and I feel that that is the best combination for me. A combination of stand up skills from kickboxing or muay thai and some BJJ for the ground. If you take Bruce Lees advice and take and use what is useful from any MA you train you will be better off.

I have also include a link to some Self defense stuff from Bas Rutten he has some very practical and useful advice.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=Self%20defence%20Bas%20Rutten&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&page=1

[Big Jew]

i think another point to add is the acknowledgement of Gi based training.
A lot of great martial arts utilize the gi as a training uniform for similar reasons. With a Gi there's a great connection to tradition. But most importantly in a street fight with Gi based training you learn to utilize a person's clothing to take control of them. (ie..Throws, Chokes, or just plain hurling them into a fire hydrant).

Might be the cleanest way to go if one was to be jumped by say a filthy crack head who has both HEP C , AIDS, and they been living in their clothes for a long time. I mostly picture it would have to be a desperate crackhead to jump out at me to get me to fight in self defense.

Would you really want to roll around with an example like that?
Also I'd use more kicks with a filthy attacker I'll let my shoes get dirty...

I think the big trend in martial arts training these days is MMA and to not wear a gi. That to me is a big disadvantage.

[crazydan]

well said big jew. i agree 100%

[Sepanto]

Gi is where the Martial art becomes an art, and stops being a fighting style. Gi is part of ma tradition, and as such i don't think should be excluded from lessons. However Doing Gi-Based Techniques is plain stupid, and unreal.

[Big Jew]

Gi is where the Martial art becomes an art, and stops being a fighting style. Gi is part of ma tradition, and as such i don't think should be excluded from lessons. However Doing Gi-Based Techniques is plain stupid, and unreal.

Well my Israeli brother...
I don't understand your arguement at all.
How do figure Gi based training is stupid?
A gi can simulate any article of clothing to utilize for combat.

[cheesedog]

I think Sepanto means that learning techniques that ONLY work if your opponent is wearing a gi is wrong. And if all you care about is combat-effectiveness, that makes sense. Of course, many people are interested in the more sport-oriented segment of the martial arts. Sport jui-jitsu or judo wouldn't be the same without the heavy duty gi.

[Sepanto]

Well my Israeli brother...
I don't understand your arguement at all.
How do figure Gi based training is stupid?
A gi can simulate any article of clothing to utilize for combat.

Gi is very non-stupid. I love it as a piece of the art in martial art. However if you base your training on the structure of the gi, you can go wrong in street fights if (for example) your opponent wears a shirt which you can't quite grab because it tears.

[Big Jew]

Gi is very non-stupid. I love it as a piece of the art in martial art. However if you base your training on the structure of the gi, you can go wrong in street fights if (for example) your opponent wears a shirt which you can't quite grab because it tears.

Ok now I see your point. If your opponent is wearing a flimsy t shirt it most likely a waste of time to grab the shirt. If its a colder time of year and the opponent is wearing a jacket your options are better to utilize his coat to take advantage of.

The point I want to make is not having to touch someone thats filthy.
There are plenty of recorded fights that have resulted in contracting HIV through the knuckles because of open cuts made from punching someone in the teeth.

[Sepanto]

Ok now I see your point. If your opponent is wearing a flimsy t shirt it most likely a waste of time to grab the shirt. If its a colder time of year and the opponent is wearing a jacket your options are better to utilize his coat to take advantage of.

The point I want to make is not having to touch someone thats filthy.
There are plenty of recorded fights that have resulted in contracting HIV through the knuckles because of open cuts made from punching someone in the teeth.

Never heard of it, but seems quite terrifying. It is a thing i have never thought of, though now i consider it, Utilizing clothes is a good solution. This actually makes me appreciate joint locks alot more now, since there is no blood involved in a joint lock...

[Fatman]

It is difficult to use opponents' clothes in a street fight, but that doesn't speak against using gi in training. In a sparring session you'll find it very hard to execute a throw without controlling the opponent's body, i.e. using gi only (this will only work with superbly un-experienced fighters/practitioners, and even then not very often). Pure gi techniques only work when practicing the moves against a non-resisting opponent. Try to apply them in a match, and you'll find yourself on your back. Try to apply them on the street and you'll get your ass kicked. Even in a very controlled fight, e.g. a match, it is impossible to throw or subdue someone solely through the use of his gi jacket. Even in the instance of gi-collar chokes you need to get the opponent into position to choke him. I'm speaking from a judo perspective; even in a heavily "gi-reliant" sport like judo, throws and submissions are more often performed by securing a firm body-hold on the opponent, rather than guiding him by pulling on his jacket (this is necessary too, but far less than most people, even most judo practitioners, assume).

In my opinion gi training works because it teaches you proper hand positioning and helps you understand the exertion of appropriate force and leverage.

[Big Jew]

Never heard of it, but seems quite terrifying. It is a thing i have never thought of, though now i consider it, Utilizing clothes is a good solution. This actually makes me appreciate joint locks alot more now, since there is no blood involved in a joint lock...

Clothes, Joint locks, Kicks, objects. I'm pretty paranoid about being accosted by someone thats ill. I don't want to make any physical contact at all.

[KBKris]

Well, I'm the new guy here, but I can tell you that from a Law Enforcement Officer's standpoint and from my personal standpoint, BJJ is great and I think it is the most effective. I studied Shaolin Goju (http://www.gallopskarate.com/about_shinjimasu.html) and attained the rank of Second Dan. While I respect the art, I think I would have done better if I started in a BJJ school.I never studied Aikido and I think that might be a good art as well, but I've my hands full with BJJ and work.I think the best way to defend yourself, though, is to exercise your Second Amendment rights. The criminals out in the street usually aren't going to attack you without having an edge over you.

[sifujerry]

I think that people who think BJJ is a great street art are in for a suprise.

I myself train in and teach a little of it. I love the art and sport of it.

In the street however, the last place you want to be is on your back. Who knows what will happen to you while you're trying to apply a fancy triangle choke or even get one on? They could have a buddy or two around waiting to drop a cinder block on you or hit you with a pool cue or kick you in the head with a steel toed boot, etc....while you're waiting for your opponent to go lights out.

If you end up on the ground, break out of it and stand up right away.

I'm a firm believer, when defending your life, in aiming for the eyes or throat, then practice your "run fu". Don't waste time sparring or dancing around. Get in and get out as fast as you can.

my .02

Jerry

[KBKris]

Very good point Jerry. I remember my Sensei tell me that the best fight you can get into is the one you'll get out of.

[Big Jew]

Well, I'm the new guy here, but I can tell you that from a Law Enforcement Officer's standpoint and from my personal standpoint, BJJ is great and I think it is the most effective. I studied Shaolin Goju (http://www.gallopskarate.com/about_shinjimasu.html) and attained the rank of Second Dan. While I respect the art, I think I would have done better if I started in a BJJ school.I never studied Aikido and I think that might be a good art as well, but I've my hands full with BJJ and work.I think the best way to defend yourself, though, is to exercise your Second Amendment rights. The criminals out in the street usually aren't going to attack you without having an edge over you.


Hey KBKris you and I are both Black Belts in cousin styles of GoJu.
I trained in Nesei Goju Ryu. Our instructors both came from Grand Master Peter Urban founder of USA GoJu Ryu.. Nice to see a relative!

[KBKris]

Hey KBKris you and I are both Black Belts in cousin styles of GoJu.
I trained in Nesei Goju Ryu. Our instructors both came from Grand Master Peter Urban founder of USA GoJu Ryu.. Nice to see a relative!

I trained under Grandmast Alonzo Wilson. He is still like a father to me.

I train at DeBrazil JiuJitsu under Martin Escobar now. http://debraziljiujitsu.com.

[Big Jew]

I trained under Grandmast Alonzo Wilson. He is still like a father to me.

I train at DeBrazil JiuJitsu under Martin Escobar now. http://debraziljiujitsu.com.


Yep, I studied under Grand Master Frank Ruiz (from ages 14-21) whom was like a father as well.

Currently at the ripe old age of 37, I train at an MMA school and also a Capoeira school.
A slight digression off topic we can private message to discuss further.

But back on topic of this charged thread... (More then likely) I would have to be jumped or have to protect someone in order for me to use violence. I'm a big guy (260-ish) and not a great runner. I'd probably be best suited to end the situation there on the on the spot as efficient as possible.

[jemoyson]

What do you think the best martial art or arts or fighting style or styles are best for streetfighting?
In my humblest opinon I believe muay thai and silat,chimande style are the nearest or best advantage when comes to a good old explosive street fight. John Wayne Park a Australian who was a sucessful muay thai fighter, was in his youth a good boxer,but felt boxing alone was not enougn,its evasivness was , but he felt that if one comes up against a good fighter, you may not be able to throw your arsenal of punches,regardless how good a puncher u are, so he took up muay thai, unlike boxing's two weapons, muay thai has eight weapons elbows,knees,shins,elbows,fist,so if your fist arent available then your conditon trained elbows are and the rest, silat,chimande indonisia (exsuse the spelling)this particular style is very offensive and explosive going forward from angles, smash smash, which as we all know in an average street its all in, but these styles which will teach you to also be calm even when being hit, which is important in any kind of combat.

[himself75]

Hi,

i practiced a lot of style (karate, kung fu, muay thai, savate...) and i witnessed a lot of streetfights.

At the beginning i started practicing in order to be good on the street... Once i had a little experience in martial arts, i never felt really confident about street fighting, mainly because no contact sparring and katas are a waste of time to my mind. So i move to savate and muay thai to have a taste of full contact, and while my selfconfidence has improve slightly, my experience of streetfighting as a witness has convinced me that martial arts, kickboxing, grappling or mma are a secondary factor.

In fact, you cannot count on the fact that if you are engaged in a streetfight, it will be a one to one combat.

Nevertheless i assisted to some one to one combats, and what i saw generally was a lot of nervous energy expense, young guys moving their fists randomly, and eventually they hit their opponent by chance. High level of adrenalin and lack of control made these fights look very poor. In these situations, anyone with a little experience of combat, or simply cold blooded, could have easyly punch or grabbed the opponent and win.

If i had to be involved in such a dumb figth, i think i could easyly punched my opponent on the face, and even show off with a jumping spinning back kick, because when you facing a dumb opponent semi knocked out by a first punch, this is the kind of luxury you can enjoy may be.

Despite these silly fights (that generally involved some skinny teenagers), i witnessed some bloodshed that no one, even Myke Tyson or Royce Gracie, could escape. I already assist to a fight involving 15 very skinny preteen, against 2 strong and tall guys. It was horrible!
The young opponents where small, very skinny, but they were 15... And has they weren't afraid and they had confidence on their number, they butchered the 2 adults... And they even enjoy the luxury to try some spectacular techniques, like jumping spinning back kick, as their victims were unable to do a single move...

I also read news that some world champion kickboxers (dany bill and dida diafat) had their ass kicked by gangs of preteen with baseball bat or golf club, in a macdonald near paris.

There is also the story of Johnny Catherine, a famous french kickboxer in the french island of La Reunion: he entertained himself by kicking ass of teen gangster in his island, and they have their revenge by killing him with a katana (samurai sword). They butchered him, and they hack his leg under his knee and take it with them as a trophee. You can find more informations on these stories with google. Now he's a famous DEAD kickboxer, killed by lightweight teenagers...

In these situations, no matter how skilled and strong you are, you're only chance is to escape: run, climb, jump... That's why bodyweight training matters!

I also witnessed less extreme situations, with just a bunch of 3 to 4 guys involved... The fight generally began with 2 opponents, but when one of the opponent start to be in inferiority, you can see his friend enter the fight to help him...
In this situation, I wouldn't try to do grappling and fight on floor as it make me an easy target for my opponent's friend...
While grappling is powerful in a one to one situation, it can be dangerous if there are multiple opponents, and generally there are...

Ironically, when i was young i practiced martial arts and kickboxing because i was lightweight, and for some reasons dumb heavyweight people like to attack lightweight people.

I remember that i had a lot of skills, i could easily kick anyone in his face, and i was fast, but i lacked power, so when i practiced muay thay at the gym against heavier opponent, i understood that despite speed and technique, against heavyweight opponent i couldn't do a lot...

After that i stopped training martial arts, and started bodybuilding, and then i stopped any training. Now that i'm an adult, i'm much more heavy than when i trained martial arts, 25 kg more, and ironically no-one try to fight with me now, only because i'm more massive.

So my conclusion his:

it's good to know the basics of punching, kicking and grappling, in some occasions it could be usefull, especially if it's not a real streetfight, but a simple confrontation with your dumb neighbor for example. When facing an average opponent, who generally doesn't have any experience of fight, it can be an advantage.

But if you have to face an experienced streetfighter (when you face an experienced streetfighter, you generally understand it at the first sight), i'm not sure that it's so usefull... Even if they lack techniques, experienced streetfighter are a lot more aggressive, and they are used to such situations, and they have generally developped some tricks of their own. And also they are used to pain...

So if you decide to engage yourself in a one to one combat, choose your opponent, or run...

In all the other situation, it's generally safer to avoid fighting... if you can run, run...

Also i have some rules that i follow: never fight in my neighborhood.

First, i don't want to be the target of any kind of vengeance, and if my victim knows where i live, their is a risk.

And also, i don't want to see the cops knocking at my door.

This rule apply to my usual way, for instance the way to go to office.

Another rule: never fight in a public area with cameras... You don't want to face a jury with such an evidence of your fault...

A last rule: if you have to fight, and if you severly injure your opponent by mistake or lost of control, run, don't be caught, and try to not be recognized by witness...

In fact, if you follow these rules, the number of situations when you could get involved in a fight are pretty small...

Of course, you can always be the victim of a fool and be in a situation of self defense... If the fool is alone, you have a chance to kick his ass and be clean when the cops arrive, but if they are fifteen, you're on a very bad day... Such things happen as I witnessed it! There's nothing to do in such a case, but pray that they won't be too bad against you...

[sgt_snoopy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've 'dabbled' here and there over the past few years with different MA's, and after speaking to a lot of people, reading forum posts on MA websites, watching fights on TV and in the street, I've decided I'll be concentrating on the following as a good combination for 'realistic' offence and defence.

Muay Thai - for kicks, punches and knee/elbow strikes
Boxing - for adding more power and form to the punches
BJJ - for grappling and groundwork

Like I said, these are only my opinions, and basically choices I've made after researching it for myself; however, after reading through posts on this thread I think I've made the right choices (IMO).
Hope that helps a little.

[bladerunner]

Himself75, excellent post! Anyone stupid enought to think streetfighting is some kind extreme sport for badasses should print the above post and tape it on a wall or somewhere they will see it everyday. You want to come out ahead in streetfight? Go to a local track and do speed intervals. Learn to run, get fast. Someone breaks into your house forget martial arts grab a weapon and play dirty. Its about staying alive and out of jail, not kicking the crap out of some streetrat.

[bladerunner]

http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/#personalsafety

Scroll down to Martial arts Self Defense and Streetfighting.

[jemoyson]

Himself75 HI, some of ur points are right but i disagree with some as well.I grew up in a tough part of London and not that proud of it but I myself have been in serious streetfights,I disagree with when u say a street fighter can tolerate pain,we are all human and bleed.I have studied kung fu,silat,muay and kickboxing,basically im tryin to tell u I have experienced both worlds, street and martial art. A seasoned street fighter has one advantage and that is determination(ball,hearts wut ever u want to call it) say compared to a non-streetfighter who trains in martial arts. yes ur right when u say people swing and just hit lucky. I have been involved and witness serious fights with bats swords,bricks u name it,theses days in london kids use guns to deal with a dispute,im not saying I would use one,depends what warrants it, but if my opponent is not carry and wants a straightner then I will oblige,whatever level they wanna get on I will defend myself,im not trying to hype that im some gangsta,(well not anymore..lol joke) but if I got beef with u and u bring a sword to it then im a bring a sword to it simple,i dont mean to come across as some violent thug but just being realistic. I dont condone mindless violence I try to avoid drunk or fiesty people I would walk but if im attacked then imma try fuck u up. Damn! I didnt hear about Danny Bill getting his azz kicked by some baseball weilding teenagers,shit happens,I rate Danny Bill as very good fighter,but yes they were out numbered. Have u heard of mma fighter called Lee Murray from London?, well he got stabbed like 4-5 times in streetfight outside a nightclub,nearly died but his fitness saved him and he is a very good fighter in the ring and on street,I wasnt there but obvoiusly no one had his back or he just thought he was invicible. Geoff Thompson author of 'Watch My Back' States 'the most imortant thing you can do in a streetfight is stay calm'. I agree be fierce but calm with it.





quote=himself75;60038]Hi,

i practiced a lot of style (karate, kung fu, muay thai, savate...) and i witnessed a lot of streetfights.

At the beginning i started practicing in order to be good on the street... Once i had a little experience in martial arts, i never felt really confident about street fighting, mainly because no contact sparring and katas are a waste of time to my mind. So i move to savate and muay thai to have a taste of full contact, and while my selfconfidence has improve slightly, my experience of streetfighting as a witness has convinced me that martial arts, kickboxing, grappling or mma are a secondary factor.

In fact, you cannot count on the fact that if you are engaged in a streetfight, it will be a one to one combat.

Nevertheless i assisted to some one to one combats, and what i saw generally was a lot of nervous energy expense, young guys moving their fists randomly, and eventually they hit their opponent by chance. High level of adrenalin and lack of control made these fights look very poor. In these situations, anyone with a little experience of combat, or simply cold blooded, could have easyly punch or grabbed the opponent and win.

If i had to be involved in such a dumb figth, i think i could easyly punched my opponent on the face, and even show off with a jumping spinning back kick, because when you facing a dumb opponent semi knocked out by a first punch, this is the kind of luxury you can enjoy may be.

Despite these silly fights (that generally involved some skinny teenagers), i witnessed some bloodshed that no one, even Myke Tyson or Royce Gracie, could escape. I already assist to a fight involving 15 very skinny preteen, against 2 strong and tall guys. It was horrible!
The young opponents where small, very skinny, but they were 15... And has they weren't afraid and they had confidence on their number, they butchered the 2 adults... And they even enjoy the luxury to try some spectacular techniques, like jumping spinning back kick, as their victims were unable to do a single move...

I also read news that some world champion kickboxers (dany bill and dida diafat) had their ass kicked by gangs of preteen with baseball bat or golf club, in a macdonald near paris.

There is also the story of Johnny Catherine, a famous french kickboxer in the french island of La Reunion: he entertained himself by kicking ass of teen gangster in his island, and they have their revenge by killing him with a katana (samurai sword). They butchered him, and they hack his leg under his knee and take it with them as a trophee. You can find more informations on these stories with google. Now he's a famous DEAD kickboxer, killed by lightweight teenagers...

In these situations, no matter how skilled and strong you are, you're only chance is to escape: run, climb, jump... That's why bodyweight training matters!

I also witnessed less extreme situations, with just a bunch of 3 to 4 guys involved... The fight generally began with 2 opponents, but when one of the opponent start to be in inferiority, you can see his friend enter the fight to help him...
In this situation, I wouldn't try to do grappling and fight on floor as it make me an easy target for my opponent's friend...
While grappling is powerful in a one to one situation, it can be dangerous if there are multiple opponents, and generally there are...

Ironically, when i was young i practiced martial arts and kickboxing because i was lightweight, and for some reasons dumb heavyweight people like to attack lightweight people.

I remember that i had a lot of skills, i could easily kick anyone in his face, and i was fast, but i lacked power, so when i practiced muay thay at the gym against heavier opponent, i understood that despite speed and technique, against heavyweight opponent i couldn't do a lot...

After that i stopped training martial arts, and started bodybuilding, and then i stopped any training. Now that i'm an adult, i'm much more heavy than when i trained martial arts, 25 kg more, and ironically no-one try to fight with me now, only because i'm more massive.

So my conclusion his:

it's good to know the basics of punching, kicking and grappling, in some occasions it could be usefull, especially if it's not a real streetfight, but a simple confrontation with your dumb neighbor for example. When facing an average opponent, who generally doesn't have any experience of fight, it can be an advantage.

But if you have to face an experienced streetfighter (when you face an experienced streetfighter, you generally understand it at the first sight), i'm not sure that it's so usefull... Even if they lack techniques, experienced streetfighter are a lot more aggressive, and they are used to such situations, and they have generally developped some tricks of their own. And also they are used to pain...

So if you decide to engage yourself in a one to one combat, choose your opponent, or run...

In all the other situation, it's generally safer to avoid fighting... if you can run, run...

Also i have some rules that i follow: never fight in my neighborhood.

First, i don't want to be the target of any kind of vengeance, and if my victim knows where i live, their is a risk.

And also, i don't want to see the cops knocking at my door.

This rule apply to my usual way, for instance the way to go to office.

Another rule: never fight in a public area with cameras... You don't want to face a jury with such an evidence of your fault...

A last rule: if you have to fight, and if you severly injure your opponent by mistake or lost of control, run, don't be caught, and try to not be recognized by witness...

In fact, if you follow these rules, the number of situations when you could get involved in a fight are pretty small...

Of course, you can always be the victim of a fool and be in a situation of self defense... If the fool is alone, you have a chance to kick his ass and be clean when the cops arrive, but if they are fifteen, you're on a very bad day... Such things happen as I witnessed it! There's nothing to do in such a case, but pray that they won't be too bad against you...[/quote]

[himself75]

Hi everybody!

When i said that experienced street fighters has some resistance to pain, i didn't mean they are unbeatable.

But experienced street fighters as well as any experienced fighter, wether it is martial arts or muay thai or mma have actually the experience of pain and can deal better with it than the average guy.

To be honest with you, i practiced mixed martial arts before the gracies popularized it.
At this time, in the eighties, we were a bunch of karate, kung fu, judo, kick boxing guys that trained together in order to exchange tips and techniques.
We trained outside in a public garden, and many times streetfighters came and gently proposed to fight against us...
We didn't were fond of them, but they never lacked of respect to us and they generally wanted to try if they could beat martial artists or kick boxer. They never win a single bout, even against the weaker of us... They had absolutely bad technique, and i think they were impressed and not used to gently fight in a regular one to one combat with some rules.

But if in a ring they can be beaten by average practitionner of any kind of style, in the street it's different.
The street is their ring, they're used too, while you lose all your reference marks. First, there's no judge, sometimes there's no light, you face one guys but he as 10 friends that back him... You wear shoes, may be suits, the ground is slipping so that you can't use your kicks...

There are many parameters that you should take into account!

But I agree too that i see completely loose and dumb fighter become raging street fighter after having practiced some months of karate...

In fact i had a friend that was phisically strong (he practiced athletism at a very good level) but he was very shy and easily afraid.

He was regularly the target of dumb gangster and one day he decided to practice karate... As he was tall and muscular due to athletism, with a great physical condition, and as he had lot of neuromotor ability, he quickly become a good karate guy.

Some months later he was attacked in the street by the kind of guys that were used to frightened him... He was totally afraid by the situation and started to lost all his confidence and reference mark... Then his opponents tried to kick him... It's at this very moment that he understood that his opponent were totally dumb and that they couldn't even give properly an effective kick. Confidence came up and he kicked there asses, and after that he was a totally new guy, and he started to frighten dumb gangsters that once frightened him...

I mean, many teenagers that attack people in the street, are just nuts, they have no strength and no techniques and they only beat people because they frighten them. Psychology is very important.

Generally that's the kind of dumbass that choose their victim: if you show fear in your face, or if you're small skinny and alone, or wear glasses, or any sign of weakness, and if they have decided today to kick an ass, you could be the victim of them...

But if you look confident, not impressed nor agressive, they generally let you pass and choose another victim, especially if you're tall and muscular.

In these situations it's easy to kick some ass, but personnaly i prefer dissuasion, because you never know how it could degenerate.

So i'm not saying that streetfighters are unbeatable, actually lot of them are bad fighters and just take advantage of number, fear and lack of reference mark, and above all surprise (if you're attacked in the back kickboxing and mma are generally useless).

I just say that except for certain situation, for instance if you have to kick ass the teenage kid of your neighbor because he had beaten your son, or if you can obviously see that your opponent won't be able to take a revenge against you, generally you take a risk by fighting in the street.

If you're stronger than you're opponent, may be he could be vicious enough to grab his knife...

I'm generally not afraid by streetfighters, i'm afraid by unknown factors in such situations, and consequences...

I don't want to go to hospital, nor i don't want to go to jail...

And yes, Dany Bill is a great fighter and i had lot of pleasure see him fighting, but it's true, he was beaten by a gang of teenager with baseball and golf sticks. In such a situation you can do nothing!

And what about johnny catherine that was murdered and his body hacked by a sword!

Here's a link to wikipedia for the murder of Catherine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Catherine

For Dany Bill i didn't found a link, but it was 10 years ago, he was in a hamburger restaurant and his opponents came in. He wasn't seriously beaten yet, he managed to stay alive, and his opponent didn't stay too long in the restaurant by fear of the police. It was a kind of blitz attack; enter fast, beat everyone, break everything, and 10 minutes later everyone has disappeared.

[theleadbreeder]

I think the one of the most important thing in any fight, whether its in the street or in a ring is you need to know your surroundings(whether that means knowing when your getting close to the ropes,cage,wall,or if its watchin out for the guys friends in the street). Any good martial arts practicioner knows you can never underestimate your opponent. A guy whos 5'5 145lb could be just as devistating as a 6'4 250lb guy. No one style reigns supreme over any other. They all have good attributes and something can be taken from each to add to your arsenol to make it whole. Just like with working out, you just cant work your upper body, gotta work the legs too, and cant forget about the abs and core. In martial arts distancing will determine what techniques and from what style your technique will come from. Whether your far enough away to keep someone away with kicks or use the kicks to set up another strike or takedown. Or if your in closer to where punches and elbows are thrown, to in closer where thai knees and judo throws and sweeps come into play.
Or if youre on the ground where wrestling ang grappling have to be used offensively or defensively. The martial artist and the streetfighter definately have the advantage over the average guy but as far as over each other. I'd say its the guy who practices more combat situations. Martial artists usually train a few times a week in combat and fighting situations. how often do streetfighters practice or train?

[Fatman]

Combat situations? I have never seen any martial arts class/school practicve combat situations. Even the "MMA cage fight"-type schools/gyms offer a watered-down version of what happens on TV (which on its own is still nothing like a street fight). Sparring, no matter how tough, is nothing close to a combat situation. Most fights I've seen were resolved by fists and kicks (the kicks come in only when one of the guys is on the ground), usually a knife ends up being pulled, both parties yell and curse at each other and then back off. I have yet to see a judo sweep, ridiculous Bruce-Lee style high kick or something from the much-advertised MMA in a street fight. Why? Because the first guy to try some of that circus-type stuff would get his teeth smashed in with a brick.

Martial arts develop a sense of awareness of your own body and of people around you. The best way to deal with a street fight situation is to be smart enough to avoid it if at all possible. Usually martial artists get overconfident on what they learned at the McDojo, respond to a provoaction thinking they'll pound the offender like their favorite UFC star and end up hurt. Badly.

[theleadbreeder]

Not for nothing but you have a serious disrespect for martial arts and martial arts schools which you call Mcdojos. I can see how some schools are a joke and are only open as a belt factory, but to lump all schools together like that is offensive to a martial artist like myself that has been training for 22 years. Every martial arts school trains in combat like situations, whether its slow and controlled or all out full contact. Your muscle memory learns these moves and enables you to do them sometimes without even thinking.

Ofcourse every training session is not full out 110% at top speed cause its TRAINING...you go a little slower and dont use as much power because if not youd have no one in your classes due to injuries.

Everything to you seems like a waterdown version of a streetfight where most people flail their arms like little girls fighting over the double dutch rope. Only a small number of streetfights end with a brick or a knife being used on someone. I dont think anybody said high kicks are affective in any type of fight but a side step and swift kick to the knee or a leg reep with an untrained streetfighter who doesnt have good footwork or balance while striking would be effective.

[Fatman]

First of all I do not wish to disrespect you or your martial arts school. I have enormous respect for the effort you and everyone elso who trains MA places in your training and I'd be an idiot if I dissed your work and dedication. After all, I have several years of MA training under the belt myself (almost all of them in the venerable art/sport of judo, which is a wonderful skill to learn and which improves pretty much every aspect of your life, as all MA do), and to disrespect fellow athletes would indeed mean disrecpecting myself in the process.

However, having trained in several martial arts schools myself and having witnessed training in several more, the real-life situation training that you refer to has very little to do with actual real-life situations. I have seen excellent athletes who had competed on European level flounder and (regretfully) get stabbed out of the blue, or sucker-punched before they even had the time to apply their martial arts knowledge in a crisis situation. The only things that wil help you in a street fight are a cool head and good reflexes, as well as awareness of your own and the placement of the people around you. Kicks to the knee and leg reaps are great for competition and excellent on television. And by street fights I don't mean ridiculous situations where two drunk blokes have a go at each other and tussle like a couple of morons until their friends pull them apart (which is prevalent in most situations I've witnessed): here a good punch usually settles things and the warring parties go their separate ways, each vowing revenge which is swiftly forgotten with tomorrow's hangover. Going against a street-trained opponent (no, there are no unexperienced street fighters - those are usually six feet under) your chances are pretty slim, no matter how Frank-Shamrock-like you look in the gym/dojo. You cant get that sort of intensity from your sparring partner or coach. Especially if said street fighter has some martial arts experience himself. A martial artist is made in the gym, but I guess you have to be born to become a fighter.

However this is all my personal opinion based on what I've seen and I'm prepared to change it as soon as I see evidence to the contrary. There is no need for anyone to get offended.

[Singnakornchai]

Best defence is simple "Run", don't even get ivolved cos mo matter how bad you think you are or weak the other guy looks all it takes is one punch, followed by a fall, followed by you cracking your head and them you having some moron jumping up and down on your face. Get away safely if you can and if you have to fight,don't jab " you are prob not Sugar Ray" use all your power shots, dirty tricks etc "balls,throat,eyes". If you get him down, get out of there. Yes training in certain arts will help especially anything that involves real life sparring "it's hard enough to catch someone flush with a punch let alone a spinning kick", keep your chin down hands up and try and stay relaxed. But as said best advice is "don't get involved"

[David43515]

I`ve practiced martial arts for just over 30 years. (Mostly kung Fu, but also some karate, silat,and arnis. I`ve cross trained with guys who did Tai Chi and Aikido as well.) I was a bouncer all through college and taught Martial arts for 2 year back in Ohio. The one thing all this has taught me is that THERE IS NO ONE GREAT MARTIAL ART.
The old saying is "It`s not the size of the dog in the fight, it`s the size of the fight in the dog." In other words a good fighter can make whatever he learns work. And two schools can teach the same art or style in different ways so that one will produce good figjhters and one will produce nothing but hothouse roses who fold under pressure. The teacher is more important than the style.
Just look for someone that will mix it up and make you sweat instead of stroking your ego.

And speaking of egos.... Are you going to be fighting over pride? Or just to get home in one peice? Most fights can be avoided if you aren`t worried about what "everyone" will think.
That being said, I think the MMA trend teaches bad habits that get you hurt on the street. Those gyms (and most martial arts schools for that matter) are teaching you to duel with your opponant. (I`m ready. Are you ready? Okay, let`s fight.) In the real world only loud drunks at parties want to "fight" you. They`re defending thier pride. Generally the people trying to flatten you favorite face don`t want to "fight", the want to beat someone up. Big Difference. They`ll hit you without warning, preferably while you`re arguing with someone else. And while you`re trying to figure out what happened they`ll keep hitting and won`t stop until they decide to leave or someone pulls them off. If you start to beat them and make a good showing for yourself, one of thier friends will blindside you.
I trained standing grappling and jointlocks for years and I can make them work smooth as silk. I still use them when I break up fights at the Jr High where I teach. But I wouldn`t rely on them in a street fight and I would NEVER WILLINGLY GO TO THE GROUND WITH ANYONE. You lose mobility. You become a target for anyone who feels like getting a boot in.You never know what you may lnd on. And the guy you go down with may decide the best way to get out of your submission is to cut his way out. A solid knockout punch (or elbow, or knee, or napkin dispenser up side the ear) is the best submission you could ever have.
Sorry to get long-winded, but this has always been a sore spot for me. Just find something you`ll stick with and train hard at it. Sweat your balls off.You`ll learn to make it work.

[himself75]

Hi,

just try a simple thing: there's a lot of sites on the net with movies of street fights situations that can be viewed.

As i don't like these sites and don't want to advertise for them i won't post any link, if you're interested try to google it.

While surfing i randomly arrived to such one sites and i viewed some videos.

The kind of videos that you can see is:

- ritual fights between skinny silly teenagers that record themselves using their mobile phone, while fighting in school or in the street.

- professional fighters that fight underground for money, in illegal fights.

- public video cameras that record the street, and that incidentally can record some real street fights.

In the first situation, teenage fight, we can obviously see that it's only about some idiots kids that want to prove to everybody that they are stronger and thougher than what they looks (ie skinny and spoty assholes). But since with videogames and mma shows on tv, many dirty martial arts tricks are known by kid, we can sometimes see a really mad guy striking very bad his opponent. But it's obvious that they are generally not aware of the risk for their opponent's life...
But generally these fights are very bad and end as soon as someone is submitted. In plus, they generally involve no more than two opponent and some rules are respected (no knife, no friend to back you...).
If you're over 18 and don't go to school anymore, this is not the kind of situation where you should be involved so forget it.

In the second situation, we see very strong guy, generally huge guys with tons of muscles (and steroids?), that fight with respect for some rules, for example no grappling and only using their fists (without gloves).
Since they don't wear gloves the technique is a little bit different than from regular boxing (you cannot hide yourself behind your gloves, and when you hit someone with your nude fist, he won't go KO easily, in fact he will start to bleed and spit his teeth out of his mouth).
These videos are impressive, but again, it's a fight between two consentant adult, and they respect some rules.
So, if you're not an underground fighter that fight for money, you're not concerned by this category of video...

The only categorie of videos that concern us all his the tird one: videosurvey...

We can see real life endangering situations.

We can see some happy slapping: you're walking nicely in the street, and 2 or 3 guys run on you, in your back, and start to strike you by surprise.
Not much can be done against it, apart to be vigileant and to start to run fast if you have time to anticipate...

We can also see generally multiple opponent against one single isolated victim, sometime the victim is an old granny and the opponents are young and big guys that want only the money... Some of these videos are chocking as you can see an old granny being hit by fists and kicks while laying on the ground... Real life situation...

In conclusion, the only situations that you should be afraid of, are the situations where you're overnumbered, isolated, and without any defense.

In these situation, if you're young enough to run, run. If you're a grandpa or a grandma, try to avoid such situations...

I love martial arts, but martial arts are good for what they are designed for: one against one situation according to some rules.

Of course some of you will tell me that styles like karate were designed to fight against multiple opponents, but remember the classic story about Gishin Funakoshi, the founder of modern Karate: all his life along he avoided to fight. One time he was the victim of an assault, and what he did was simply to grab the balls of his opponent and press them hard, and then run!

Another great master of karate was Mas Oyama, that mainly fight against opponent of other styles according to some rules, and that was famous for his fight in arena against raging bull (he generally make the bull KO with one punch, and then break his horn)... Even him was never sure of the real efficiency of his art regarding a decisive struggle for one's life... So one day he had the opportunity to try one lethal strike against a poor robber that wanted his money... He killed the guy with one strike (remember that he was very strong, he could knock out a bull, so a man...). After that, he stopped karate for some years because he recognized the foolishness of his act... He resumed only after the widow of his victim have forgiven him...

That show that even great karate masters were rarely involved in real dangerous situation (Oyama killed a single guy that wasn't a real treat in fact, and that wasn't backed by friends).

So, if you're in a bad situation one day, try to calm down your opponent by talking with him, and showing him that you're not afraid and you're not decided to be the victim, and that it should be better to avoid a fight...

If that doesn't work, and if the guy is single, and if you estimate that they're is not a great risk that he has a knife or a gun, you can try to fight against him, if you want to prove yourself that you have balls...

But in the real endangering case where you are hit by surprise, you don't even have the time to think about what everybody will think... In that situation, if you are not KO at first strike, kick in the balls of the nearest opponent, and then run...
You won't have time to take the posture of the snake or fly kick in the air.

And think about it: if you are with your girlfriend or kids, or grandma or grandpa while being importunated, you shouldn't take the risk of a fight that could hurt your relatives... In this case too, avoid fight, try to talk, or pass your way...

[Erik]

Have to agree with that. I've been practicing for most of the last 25 years, and any fight you avoid is a good fight.

One of the police officers I worked with taught Avoid, Evade, Escape as the core of his self-defense system:

Avoid (when possible) getting into situations where you put yourself in danger.

Evade dangerous situations when you see them coming.

Escape if you find yourself in a dangerous situation.

As for which martial art is best? None of them. All have weaknesses and strong points, but for the most part, they aren't about actual fighting. Take hand-to-hand combat classes if you can find them but remember that, should push come to shove, you can be charged if you badly injure someone and can't prove that they were an actual threat (and it's hard to prove someone is a threat when you're a black belt).

Once had a drunk girl pull a 12 inch butcher knife on me for fun in university. She was a friend, previous to that. Fortunately, it ended without a tussle and none of us got injured, because I didn't know enough then to do anything other than get cut or break her arm (probably both would have occurred).

[himself75]

To be fully honest, the only fights were i was ever involved were:

championship, i did some fights in Karate or Savate, and i generally ended first or second, and earn medals... But i cannot consider it as real fights, it was sport. Tension, but not fear... And rules, round, and a physician and judges as well... Nothing to compare with the street.

other fights i was involved in were: silly fights against schoolmates... Generally i was pretty confident because i knew that there were no risk of revenge. And i also was gentle enough to not destroy them... Generally i showed of some spectacular kick techniques, in front of them, but without hitting them... If there was any contact, paradoxally it ended in the floor... I have no experience of grappling but a basic understanding of some very basic techniques, and as i didn't want to break a nose or a jaw, the rare times when i had contact against an opponent i preffered to project them on the floor. Generally it ended like this: they were happy to be safe and not that much humiliated, i was happy to not have gone too far...

And for other situations i generally succeeded to avoid them, or to escape...

Sometimes when you obviously see a junkie walking in your direction, it's better to anticipate and to change your way...

Same thing if you are to encounter a gang...

One time i was threaten by a gun: i didn't know if it was loaded or not... I talked gently and calmly, but firmly with the crazy young guy (he lived in my neighbourhood) and he calmed himself...

Then he respected me a lot and i had no problem with him (in fact, the only problem that i had was that he was very friendly to me, and whenever he had the occasion to help me, he offered his help, and as he was a kind of gangster, i didn't want to be to close to him to avoid problems, which he finally understood...).

I hope i won't have to be in a dangerous situation again, but since i've abandonned all my kid dreams of being a strong street fighter, i live better, as i'm no more obsessed by fight, violence or the risk to be assaulted...

I stopped martial arts for years, and i wonder this year why not start to do some tae kwon do... for fun!!!

tae kwon do is totally useless in the street, as you generally don't have space nor time to fly kick against your opponent, but it's a great sport, a mix of acrobatics kicks and good cardio training too...

so it could be a good compromize between martial arts and acrobatics, and i think it could be fun... i'll see...

[Dianu]

Fantastic thread so far, really had some useful information given, and some well-rounded opinions shared.. However, so often in these threads do I see the so-called "Street fighter" myth being poured out in great amount. This image of the "born fighter" is placed upon a pedestal of un-imaginable strength, cunning and prowess.. as though this Street Fighter is a totally different species, a Mystery of the fighting world, the most dangerous opponent you'll ever come across! My response to this is usually: Get a grip!

Now please, pardon my sudden attack for a moment, and allow me to explain my frustrations.
You see there is this strange, usually fear induced, myth given off subconsciously by people that Street Fighters are all Born warriors, trained on the rough streets of [insert tough-sounding country of origin here] since birth, un-afraid of pain, and willing to fight to the death! Well from my honest experience, it just isn't the truth..
The Street Fighter has but three advantages: Psychology, numbers and surprise!

Now before I go on further, let me set one thing straight, these so called Street Fighters, are they any different from anybody else? (Bar perhaps they're a little less intelligent)
..Well of course they're not, they're all basically human, and most are only as physically strong as the average active person. The average person who fights on the street (or more likely just goes to attack somebody, there's of course a difference) is nothing special.. They're no stronger than most MA practitioner, no smarter, and probably no faster!

Ok you might say, but they're all experienced in fighting, right? Well yes that's true, but I’m not so sure that's such of an advantage, and it in no way means that they're all "born fighters"!
Correct me if I am wrong but are not MA practitioners also fighters? In-fact they're mostly quite intelligent fighters and also highly trained/strong/fast etc.
But in that case why are people, who're quite competent at respective MA's, beaten so often by mere thugs? Mostly it's due to the first advantage of the "Street Fighter" Psychology!
Most people, who train at MA, don't train to fight in a real situation, it's all in the dojo, and it's all safe! I agree that to learn you must feel safe in your environment, but I also believe that at some point you must get that vital combat experience, otherwise you'll find yourself freezing up at the first sight of the deadly "Street Fighter" as he barks at you for money, or swings at you violently!

However, take away they're Psychological advantage, and he/she suddenly looses a LOT of they're edge! In one on one, the average street fighter probably wouldn't stand a chance if the MA practitioner was prepared to fight. It isn’t some "in-born" thing that only the "true warrior" can really know, it's something that you can learn, and should be learnt! (In my opinion)

The next advantage is numbers, and this one of course you can do little to combat ('cept perhaps training in multiple opponent fighting, however if it gets to 4 on 1 level, even the highest levels of training won't do you much good.. there is only so much a human body can defend against/take realistically)
In such a case, yes by all means I’d run away, escaping is a part of any good defence! (For good techniques in escape try looking up Parkour, a French discipline that focuses on escape, efficiency and evade)
Just remember, the street fighter is still nothing special, any idiot can get his mates over to pummel an opponent, a wise fighter will choose to escape, live and learn from the experience.. Not go against stupid odds and be massacred!

Finally we have surprise, probably the scariest thing about the infamous "Street Fighter" and also the most obvious to defend against.. Again, let me make it clear that the "Street Fighter" is nothing special. He is not some silent assassin, or Ninja waiting to strike, he's just some guy who has a knife in his pocket or a bottle behind his back!
When it comes to a surprise attack, you can only prepare. Once you've been battered over the head from behind by a brick you're going down, no two ways about it really!
But if you prepare you'd be surprised about what you can do to avoid this happening. For starters, don't provoke somebody then let them out of your sight.. if they walk away, let them, but keep an eye on them, keep alert or leave the area. Anybody who is going to 'sucker punch' you is probably going to hold a grudge as well! So just don't let down your guard..
Equally important, don't go walking about very dark places, or isolated places that leave you open to an attack from the shadows/from behind. If it's a dark street walk near the road-side of the pavement, and watch for any shadows in the streetlights: I do this automatically now, not because I’m paranoid, but simply because I’m sensible.. I don't want to get seriously hurt!
Equally, listen for movement, most people aren't very stealthy and if you're being attacked from behind and paying attention, then chances are you'll hear the attack, and have at least a few seconds to protect you're head/neck or at least move so that the blow doesn't meet a vital point!

Finally always remember that they're only people, they make mistakes, they feel pain, and they're probably talk able too, should you get chance to try it. Once you drop the idea of the "Street Fighter" then you'll not only have a better chance should it go to a fight, but paradoxically you'll actually become more prepared. Fear makes people do stupid things, and forget the most basic of preparations. Loose the fear and you'll find yourself being more logical in these potentially dangerous situations!

Hope my post helps,

Dianu,

[himself75]

Of course street fighters are not supermen!

As i previously said, when i trained martial arts or kickboxing, i could regularly see some of them try to join us. Most of the time they were beaten, because they had no techniques, and they were afraid by the difference of level.

They were simply not in their environment...

Another thing i already seen is when such so called "though guy" were found alone or not in their neighborhood... As they were afraid to meet some of their ennemies seeking for revenge, they simply looked afraid, looking at their back and walking nervously...

But, when they attack you in the street, they are generally in a situation when they have advantages on you: their friends, they know the place, they attack you by surprise, and they are vicious...

I'm an advocate of avoiding fight whenever you can, even if you're in a situation when you have the opportunity to knock out easily your opponent.

But i practiced different styles of MA, and i can say that if no style is totally ultimate to fight in the street, you can grab some usefuls tricks in any of them...

For example, i practiced karate... High kicks are useless, and they are dangerous, but karate has one or two strong techniques of punch that are really useful... Gyaku tsuki for instance is a good way to punch your opponent from a long distance... In real life situations, i could surprise really easily many opponent that wanted to test me (i didn't strike them really, just surprised them "skin touch"). In fact many people are used to see boxing style punch, from medium distance, and when you plunge from long distance to strike in their face, plexus or abdomen, they're surprised...

Also at medium distance, any punch from boxing are useful, but they have two major disadvantage: first, without gloves, you cannot defend yourself like if you were in a ring... Gloves protect a lot of your face because of their large surface. With them you can block many punch in your face. Without them, you can get easily counterpunch in the face, and at medium distance it's almost impossible to block a fast punch... Another problem is that in medium distance, if your opponent has a good knowledge of grappling, you probably won't have the opportunity to punch him... To avoid to be punched in the face, he will probably grab you, and if your opponent is too close from you, your punch will lack power...

From kickboxing i also learn many useful tricks: i practiced muay thai, and i definitely had problem with my barefoot... too sensitive! But in close contact, kick are necessary with barefoot... If your opponent don't block your kick with his own barefoot, everything should be fine... But i never supported the pain of a strike barefoot against barefoot... Hopefully, i also practiced savate that is less painful... In Savate you have shoes and you strike with your shoes, and it's very powerful, since you can inflict severe damages with very little power (if you strike some joints, or some vital points like the liver for instance). But to strike efficiently, you must be very fast and aim very well.

I also know some basis of grappling, and i know that against an opponent that has poor knowledge of grappling i can do something...

But i also practiced a little bit of Kung Fu and i was very interested by the way they fight. It depends of school, but i practiced a little bit of chin na, and i thought it was very effective... In chin na, you won't try to fight linearly like in many styles, like karate or boxing... In fact, you will try to catch the hand of your opponent, and to twist it, or you will try to leverage his joint. Contrary to ju jistu, you do it while standing, not when you're lying on the floor... What is interesting is when you try to do that, you are generally never in the axis of attack of your opponent... So there is little risk to be hard punched or kicked (to punch or kick efficiently, your target must be in your axis of attack). Chin na seems to me very good, but it needs a lot of practice. Also i could see that some chin na techniques were teached in close combat fight for the military...

One thing i must say about my experience in MA: there are many schools that teach you so called self defense.

The teacher pretend to show you how to react if you are punched, kicked, grabbed, or how to face an opponent with a knife or a gun...

Most of the time, their training was useless: they didn't know how to give a real punch or a real kick, and they trained themselves to react against imaginary attacks...

If the teacher had to demonstrate his technique with me, i had to deliberately slow my punch or my kicks, and even doing so, many times i irritated such teachers because i was able to prove the inefficiency of their techniques... However, not all of their techniques were bad, if they were adapted to a more realistic punch or kick, may be it could have been interesting, but the great problem was that the students of such styles trained uselessely...

Such misunderstood happen sometimes when a judo teacher try to imagine a defense against a strike... First, learn to give a real strike and then, imagine the defense...
The inverse is true too: before mma existed, and different styles confronted in the ultimate fights, i saw kickboxer trying to imagine how to fight againt a grappler, without knowing how a grappler move or behave...


So, i guess that no style has a real complete realistic view of how is a real fight for life.

MMA has improved the general level of fighters yet, but always according to some rules.

One thing interesting to notice by the way, is that the kind of tricks that your learn in chin na are generally forbidden in MMA championships... I would be curious to see how a gracie could react against a master of chin na that won't wait to be in the floor (even if they have some knowledge of the floor). In chin na, there is a lot of dirty tricks, like aiming weak joints (fingers for example, which i guess is not allowed in MMA). To break a finger is extremely easy, and if you have the opportunity to do so if you're grabbed, even the best grappler can't do nothing... And if he cannot close his hands, a grappler is severely diminished.

In conclusion, if ever i had to fight, depending in the situation, i should probably try to use some things that i learned in martial arts... If i'm clear minded enough to do so of course! Because it takes a lot of cold blood to react technically...

But of course, there are a lot of parameters, and there are some situation where you can defeat even multiple opponent, i already witnessed such a situation...

Not all the assault in the street are performed by dangerous and experienced fighters, in fact most of the fight i assisted were totally dumb, for example at the exit of a discotheque, with drunken or semi drunken opponent.

One time i saw three big guys, kind of footballer huge guys (rugby practitionner here in france) that were afraid of one single guy...

The single guy simply made some strange moves that looked like karate (but it wasn't! it was totally nothing, the guy only improvised some moves to afraid the 3 others! and it worked!!!). The single guy was surrounded and slowly his 3 opponent were approaching him... Finally he choose the one that looked the weakest of the 3 and he hit him... The 2 others made a step back... They were afraid of a guy that was dancing in the air, thinking that they were confronted to a sort of karate champion! Psychology!

And in fact i know footballer or rugby practitionner: when they run against you to grab you, it's really difficult to escape, they're fast and heavy... So they probably could have easily beat the single dancer...

So depending of the situation some MA techniques can probably be useful... At least to surprise one first opponent, and if they are not too numerous, let's say 3, and if you can knock out one by surprised, they're only 2 then, and probably less confident... Of course, if they have knives or gun, and if it appears clearly that they're ready to use them...

No, frankly, it's impossible to answer the question of best martial arts for street fighting...

There are too much situations, and only in some of them MA can be useful...

My advice would be: learn as many different techniques as you can, there's no point to be an world champion in one field, at least try to have a medium level in many fields (punch, kick, grappling...) so that you can adapt your opponent (against tyson, it's probably not a good idea to use your fists, instead try to kick or grapple...), and if you really want to learn usefull techniques that you can use in the street in real life situation, take some lessons of stick combat, or knife combat... Some traditionnal MA like Kali, or Penchak Silat teaches how to fight with such weapons...

It could be not too much complicated to improvise a stick in the street (rolled newspaper, umbrella...), and if you really want to be prepared to fight an opponent with a knife, you shouldn't try to improvize, there is some basis that you must respect if you want to live (especially not exposing your vital points, that implies a special way to move and stand).

And even with hundreds hours of practice of many different styles and a basic knowledge of knife combat, you will probably still have some doubts on your ability to succeed in a real fight, and it's normal...

Personnaly, i think that it's too much effort, compared to the probability that you will be put in such a situation...

I prefer to keep quiet, enjoy the life, not wonder too much, and avoid risky situations...

[Oztrav]

sorry for long post just read the bottom two paragraphs
guess people would say well look at the first few ufc how many boxers both western thai or the french stuff broke their hands (cause they didnt wear gloves). Then they say royce Gracie won which he did he was dominant but these are not street fights his opponents knew when to tap out I boke a guys arm at work once when we had "a punch up" It got me fired and it got him a spiral fracture and many months off work so Whatever goes is great and some situations may call for it but remember some dumbos dont know that they are going to pass out or somethings gonna break

since then ive moved to judo used to do bjj and i do some heavy bag work judo good cause you can throw take the wind out of them let em cool down

multiple assailants anyone who says theyve been succesful against these im fairly sceptical unless they were fighting infants, or the elderly or disabled

though if you like striking go for a striking based art if you dont mind having bit of a wrestle go for something along those lines

and try to get in as much sparring as possible not only is this as close to the real thing as your gonna get it good pressure training and cardio

[Fatman]

multiple assailants anyone who says theyve been succesful against these im fairly sceptical unless they were fighting infants, or the elderly or disabled


LOL... exactly :)

(Trying to erase mental image of charging old people in wheelchairs)

[Sheepdog]

I think that people who think BJJ is a great street art are in for a suprise.

I myself train in and teach a little of it. I love the art and sport of it.

In the street however, the last place you want to be is on your back. Who knows what will happen to you while you're trying to apply a fancy triangle choke or even get one on? They could have a buddy or two around waiting to drop a cinder block on you or hit you with a pool cue or kick you in the head with a steel toed boot, etc....while you're waiting for your opponent to go lights out.

If you end up on the ground, break out of it and stand up right away.

I'm a firm believer, when defending your life, in aiming for the eyes or throat, then practice your "run fu". Don't waste time sparring or dancing around. Get in and get out as fast as you can.

my .02

Jerry

Jerry,

I think you made the best post on this thread so far.

Nothing is guaranteed but here are some generalities. They assume that avoidance and situational awareness failed.

Try to end the fight in three moves or less in three seconds or less.

Hard to soft, soft to hard. That means don't hit someone in the head with your fist. Your fist is fine for a solar plexus or kidney punch but use palm heel and edge of hand blows for head shots. Palm heel strikes take the place of jabs, crosses and uppercuts to the head. Edge of hand strikes take the place of hooks to the head.

Don't go to the ground on purpose and when you do go down get up as soon as possible. Work on escapes when you practice your "ground game" instead of submissions. Saying that most stand up fights go to the ground isn't strictly accurate anyway. It would be more accurate to say that most stand up fights go to a clinch and most clinches go to the ground. Being good with short shots and low kicks in a clinch can help avoid going down.....sometimes.

If there is such a thing as a "best" marital art it's probably a pistol/emptyhand interface.

[Oztrav]

i would be inclined to not fight on the ground but if ol mate has his pals round the corner with a cinder block or anvil wouldnt it be better to break ol matey arm then you only have to chasing you but then you could do jail time aswell

i love these threads how long is piece of rope? how much sand is on the beach?

[jfinch05]

I would have to pick a combination of martial arts. I am fairly knowledgeable in multiple styles, and I would tend to lean towards Muy Thai and Brazilian Jujitsu. However....In a street fight, you use what ever works in that specific situation, and do it very quickly. You want the fight over fast. Also IF the fight is avoidable, that's even better.-Johnathon Finch

[arifreedom]

My view is like this. If you are smart then you don't hang out with a bad crowd and end up in street fights with stupid drunk kids.

No, if you are going to train, you train for the real deal which is a criminal with a knife or gun or a terrorist situation. All this unarmed stuff is effective just for one thing in this kind of surprise attack: To be able to give yourself just enough time to get out your own weapon so at least you have a chance. There is no such thing as an unarmed system (not even MMA!) that turns you into a super ninja. If you don't know how to use a weapon then you only know how to defend yourself from the wrong kind of opponent and not the real bad guy who may kill you or someone you love (you can't just run away from that)

[Erik]

I can't be a super ninja?

But... but...

I just ordered the kit from a comic book! They said I could be a super ninja in six easy lessons!

Dammit! ;)

[CombatConditioner]

To street fight effectively, you ust know how to control your adrenaline. This comes with time, and practice, problem is practice is usually actual fights. Having some skills in defense is good to help. Some on this thread have said Krav maga - this skill is in fact a skill aimed directly at street scenarios, and multiple assailents, if you go to the right trainer. Mui-Thai is another art that was based on actual fighting scenarios, to fight againt military, although most trainers are too focused on ring fighting so the skills in defending yourself on the street an no longer as relevant in trainings. I believe if you have a good base, and a teach yourself street smarts, as in if you think the guy yelling at you is gonna hit you, do something about it, don't wait for him to actually hit you.

I've been in at least 1 fight. HAHA OK I lost one major fight againt 12 guys, which sucked, but I walked away and only lost one tooth due to a steel toe boot to the mouth, not bad if you ask me.

[cheesedog]

I've been in at least 1 fight. HAHA OK I lost one major fight againt 12 guys, which sucked, but I walked away and only lost one tooth due to a steel toe boot to the mouth, not bad if you ask me.

Not bad at all! Damn good as a matter of fact.

[Trarup]

The best style for a street fight is one where you feel you have mobility, and the ability to adapt to a changing enviroment. Just because you square off with your opponent doesnt mean it will stay 1v1. You need to be able to end the fight quickly, and be prepared for his friends to come at you. The key to martial arts is learning to adapt, and repition.

Remember that every style has a weakness. Some area that has been over looked. There is no complete style, and in the event there was one, you would not be able to master it in one lifetime.

[Sepanto]

I just had a realization today... there is no cookie cutter solution... it depends... i just fought a 2 meters tall guy today, and learned that in some cases karate fighting sux and you gotta go close range because he can kick you without you getting close enough.... and another case a guy was real good grappler, so i kicked him outside his range... and as such i just realised ,no single solution solves all problems..

[bas410]

Still, I don't think style would really matter, unless you are spending extreme amounts of time on your martial art. I guess it'd take lots of dedication and experience to be able to 'condition yourself (ie doing the right things, punching technically correct)' instead of having to think about your next move, something that's very hard when your body is pumped with adrenalin.

But drunk fights..drunk people feel less, but have no coordination, power or anything else. I'd never run away from a drunken idiot (in a 'regular' 1vs1 situation that is). Drug-fueled agression however is a different story.

[summercity]

Go to seminars for various styles, take what you find most practical from each experience and practice it on your own and with friends.
I teach self-defense and martial arts, I never ever say this style or that style is B.S.
You learn from good teachers, take what knowledge is practical and make it your own.
My background is Aikido, but I have trained in Judo, western-boxing, Wing-chun... I never say this is B.S. or that is B.S. because within every different style there are elements to learn that are practical.

On the other hand, you know a martial arts teacher is full of sh*t when they forbid their students from learning and practicing with other teachers.

[Yaro]

I still think a combat system like Krav Maga, Spetsnaz GRU or systema are more effective in real life situations, as they teach you many many tactics that are shunned in martial arts.

Here is a quote about krav maga that I found:

"Krav Maga generally assumes a no quarter situation; the attacks and defenses are intended for potentially lethal threat situations, and aim to neutralize these and escape via maximum pain or damage to opponents, as rapidly and safely as possible. Crippling attacks to vulnerable body parts, including groin and eye strikes, headbutts, and other efficient and potentially brutal attacks, improvized use of any objects available, and maximizing personal safety in a fight, are emphasized."

[waylon]

the only problem with that is you cant practice eye gouges and groin shots headbutts because you will soon run out of people wanting to train with you. Gracie jiujitsu is without a doubt the best self defense in a street fight situation

[Erik]

Actually, you can practice eye gouges, groin strikes and headbutts, and I frequently do. The key is to practice in a controlled manner and to work with people with enough skills to do the same.

We also practice joint breaks, throat strikes and knee kicks, and we haven't broken anyone yet.

[waylon]

what style do you practice if you dont mind me asking

[Erik]

I actually haven't practiced actively in about two years, so I should have used the past tense for that post. I’m hoping to start again in the near future, if I can find some people to play with.

Let me just add, the stuff below makes me sound like a super martial artist or something. I’m not. I was good in my day, but not amazing. I worked on stuff on and off for 25 years. These days I’m out of shape and slowly rebuilding.

I studied Shaolin Kenpo and Moh Kempo to black belt, and Arnis de Mano to brown belt. Since then it's been take whatever I find and blend in, most of it caged from various books: US Army & Marine HTH, WW2 HTH combat technique, Various styles of Kung Fu, Aikido, Bruce Tegner's Stuff, Judo, Jui-jutsu, San Shou, Chin-na, Fukien Ground Fighting, whatever I could find.

I also worked as a fight director on stage (I never made it big so you've never heard of me), which introduced me to various western weapon and unarmed techniques (interesting, 15th century Italian knife defense looks a lot like Aikido). I developed "Instant Kung Fu," "Instant Brawl" anmd "Instant Musketeer" workshops to show people how to look like they knew what they were doing in a minimum of time.

Becoming a fight director also gave me a chance to work with martial artists and fight guys (actors who do stage combat) who were interested in learning what is practical, what is fanciful, and what just looks cool. They are guys who have spent years mastering their control, so they can practice without hurting each other, or another actor when on stage. That’s why we could practice the way we do.

We practived techniques slowly to learn, sparred with control, and set safety rules and limits on everything. We worked hard not to hurt each other, while training to hurt other people.

[David43515]

I have about 30 yrs of MAtraining under my belt, mostly Northern and Southern Shaolin, but a little Arnis, Silat, Karate, and Aikido as well. One of the schools I trained at spent alot of time building equipment that would move simulate an opponant`s body and we were able to practice eye gouges, joint breaks,neck breaks, etc at full speed and power on a moving target that way.Most had places to insert various sizes of board or dowelrod into that would break if you used enough power. They could be suspended from the ceiling or placed on dollies and wheeled around to give them more mobility and speed.

Then we could combine that with various sparring drills under ALOT of control to help it mesh with your regular fighting skills. It`s not so difficult if you really want to train those types of things.

No offense intended Waylan, but have you ever tried actually using any of the various Brazillian Juijitsu styles in a fight? How did it work for you?

I only spent a few years in college as a bouncer, but from all the fights I was in and the many more I witnessed I can say BJJ is suicide outside of the ring. Most real fights between adults involve weapons and multiple opponants. Going to the ground is the last thing you want to do, and if it happens you`re better off spending your energy getting up as fast as possible instead of trying to tie someone up in a guard or mount position. While you`re mounting one person his friend will generally blindside you. Groundfighting is a great skill, and I crosstrain for when I can`t avoid it....but it limits mobility to almost zero.While you`re in the middle of slipping someone into your favorite hold he may panic and decide the best way to escape involves the knife in his pocket. The best submission hold you could ever ask for is a KO.

I COULD BE WRONG, BUT THAT`S JUST MY OPINION

[Jon_B]

I've read some of the replies, and what I'm going to say has probably been said more than once.

There is no such thing as a best martial art, but there are:
A. Arts that are more aligned to street fighting.
and B.
Arts that have training methods that are better or worse for any number of people.

Arts within A are usually like that because of B.

What you need is a style that teaches the concept of "Aliveness": A resisting opponent. That isn't style depedent necessarily, but you have to figure out what fighting ranges align to you.
OR: You could learn fighting in all ranges. That's what MMA and JKD are strong about.

Many Mixed Martial Artists for example have a base traditonal style (For example: Bas Rutten-TKD, Chuck Liddell- I've heard Kenpo, but I've also heard Aikido) that they take, and they move on from there. They learn fighting on all ranges, and in doing that: They prepare themselves for many situations.

I could go into a big analysis of styles, but it would take me forever (And this post is already going to push the limit :p ), and I don't believe any style is better than another: Just certain training methods that work for some better than others.

-I will repeat this though: Make sure the school has medium contact sparring, full contact, or all around. "Point-Sparring" is ok, but it fails by itself in most cases, because a street thug will laugh if you do light contact on him. I'd advocate that you find a school that combines all of that, or medium to full contact sparring of some sort. You can choose to start a system that teaches striking (TKD, Wing Chun, kick boxing, savate, Muay Thai, Karate, Kenpo, Kung Fu, Capoeira, for example), grappling (Sambo, Judo, Jujutsu, BJJ, Wrestling), or hybrids/combinations/combat systems that teach fighting on various ranges:

Bujinkan ("Unarmed Ninja Combat")
Systema
Krav Maga/Haganna
Kajukenbo (Big emphasis on multiple opponent sparring)
Pankration
Jeet Kune Do (It's just a term, but schools will teach you hybrid/combinations of styles that vary depending on school)
Vee Arnis Jitsu (Muay Thai, BJJ, and Escrima stick fighting)
MCMAP
Combatives
Hapkido (It's mostly joint locks/manipulation, but it has throws, strikes, submissions, and some styles such as Combat Hapkido have ground fighting incorporated)
Kyukido (Similar to Hapkido, but a bigger emphasis on striking)
Kuk Sool Won
San Shou Kung Fu
And more.....

Research martial arts styles, ask people about how they train, and find a very good school(s) in your area. Good luck, and take this quote from Bruce Lee (I don't have it exact: Sorry... :p ):

"I don't fear the man that does 10,000 kicks at once: I fear the man that's practiced the same kick 10,000 times."

Find those techniques that are practical for you, and no one else. It doesn't matter if it's the same 3 kicks: Perfect them, and make them work for you.

Good luck, and avoid confrontations if you can.

[Trarup]

I agree 100%. As nice as it is to be able to control the individual your fighting, it wont help you when his friend hits you with a bat. It is my opinion that the best defence is a style of martial arts that allows for the highest mobility, but doesnt rely on having limitless space to move in.

Allways remember that as fun as it is to watch the UFC, and as incredibly talented as those people are (and they truely are incredible!) what they do is sport. What they do has rules and limitations. A real fight doesnt.

[Damien_Starks]

Boxing, Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Wing chun. Any of those would be useful against most untrained attackers.
When street fighting its always best to stick to the basics and learn to fight from the clinch where most fights end up before it goes to ground.

[thaijeet1]

jkd..or jeetkunedo..scientific street fighting

developed by bruce lee.. check htis guy out
tommycarruthers.com ..look at da vids

[Dan_Grr]

The best thing is to avoid a fight at all possibles. You should train your awareness, assertiveness and de-escalate situations.

You could try going to selfdefenseforums.com, search and read things before asking advice for something that might be bothering you, or if you just want to protect yourself.

As far as martial arts go, you could have spent years on end learning some complex martial art only to discover you're shaking, hardly can move your legs, or any other incumberence when you're being seriously confronted.

Wouldn't be more logical to learn pratical, useful techniques? Enter Combatives.

P.S.: Life matters, ego does not.

[dlhjr1970]

Bruce Lee used to take knowledge or styles from many different forms.. Meaing that there is no perfect form of fighting...from reading this blog I saw several different forms of MA mentioned...one does not become a bad A*% over night, but over the course of many years, or sometimes a lifetime. Each form of MA has it strengths and weaknesses. for instansce.
Tae Kwon Do.....known for the kicks
Hapkido....similar to Tae Kwon do, but better known for joint locks and take downs
JuJitsu.....known for ground fighting, because of joint locks, chokes.

and the list goes on, over the years I have know several individuals who practice multiple forms of MA. At this point of my life my interest would be in boxing combined with American Kenpo

[leftysurprise]

i would have to say IMO that MixedMartialArts is the best. since it is just a collaboration of the best parts of many martial arts.

i personally find jeet kune do, krav maga and judo the ones i favor. i also like eagle claw kung fu.

[olinek]

Isn't mixed martial arts just a term for open combat sports like UFC?

[Powlius]

I think MMA is the best. I like - pancrase + muay thai/kickboxing.

[Shredmonster]

There is no best. It all depends upon the circumstances and the experience of the fighter.

I have studied Shotokan for over 20 years. I like it because the objective is to put the attacker down with a single technique - be it hands or feet.
I like the concept of not having to go to the ground. When you get good at a style such as Shotokan you can hit extremely hard - hard enough to kill if you hit the head or break bones if you hit the body. But it is a very long process to learn and become fluid and proficient.
The other thing I personally like about it is you attack the attacker. Its all a matter of timing. If someone has a knife and attacks you block and attack simultanously.

[Dienekes]

yo the best thing for street fighting, is not fighting. I've been "street fighting" for a while now, and I've noticed with the older i get the less i fight. I actually asked my Sifu why he thought this was and he said "the more you train the less you will want to fight". Notice next time your in a fight or you see a fight that; people mostly fight to validate themselves.

so with saying that i would suggest Modern Veejitsu, its a great survival art. You definitely wont be able to learn it from a book though for one of two reasons; (1) I don't think there are books for it ;-P (2) If your not in the intense atmosphere of an actual class you would be short changing yourself.

[isaiah.chentnik]

I would say that there are really to many factors to calculate to actually know what would work the best and some factors are completely random (see quantum physics). I think that the best policy is to prevent the fight with wisdom and tolerance but like my old man always told me. Never bring a knife to a gun fight. You never know who's packin'.

[greg_mcintyre_03]

hi, im a 23 year old aussie with 3 years in the army 2 years muay and 2 years BJJ, who does still end up in fights and i just want to add my 2 bob...

you guys are over thinking... muay and BJJ are great in the ring and i love them BUT most street fights are fueled by the piss, piss comes from pubs, pubs have bouncers whos job it to stop that happening.
if ur still keen, mate, learn to box plain and simple, spar, and learn to get hit. if you try and knee or kick some one on the street ull miss then your up sh*t creek cuz u PROB fell over and you NEED the fight over quick cuz ur pretty drunk urself but ur not knocking anyone out because youll PROB be the first one hit so learn to get hit and maybe a throwing art like judo...then practice running, only stay and fight to let the shiela get to safety then get urself to safety. also most steet fights involve chairs, a bit of timber maybe a bit of pipe or some type of big weapon fights like that a MA wont help, just learn to not be there...running isnt cowardly is f*ckin smart...

[Erik]

...running isnt c