Rock climbing.

Anyone here rock climbs for a compound exercise?

You give me a rock and I'll climb it. :-D

[speedy]

I took one wall climbing class, and kicked ass in the class. I can see the benefit and how it can be fun, but for reasons of my own I never went back. If I were to give one exercise to really do you good is if anything, would be doing laps in a pool. There is not an exercise I can think of that uses more muscles than swimming. Granted you will be slimmer, but hey, if you want to be big, eat more and lift more, but then that is not bodyweight training. In fact, the wife and I are looking into finding a place that fits our needs so we can do this.

I know swimmers have strong backs.
Most can do many pull ups with out training for them.
I trained MT with a guy who swam for a while.
If he grabbed your neck, you are done. His back was so strong that he could throw you in any direction.

I have nothing against climbing. It is an over all body work out.
Just no place to do it.

[Appleman]

I know swimmers have strong backs.
Most can do many pull ups with out training for them.
I trained MT with a guy who swam for a while.
If he grabbed your neck, you are done. His back was so strong that he could throw you in any direction.

I have nothing against climbing. It is an over all body work out.
Just no place to do it.

Funtime USA

Hey guys.
I went climbing with my friends over the weekend. Get this a 60 year old dude with a stomach comes in. People are looking at him, like "yeah, ok"
All of the suddenly he climbed the wall with no spoter at least 3 times faster than I can.
Than one of the guys that was with us is a Bodybuilder. All he was after is showing his muscles. So when he was supposed to hang with straight arms he would flex, just to show off. He keept flying off in the middle of the wall. And the best part is, the next day when we went again, he was too sore to go. :lol:

[koltz]

bodybuilders are too scared of overtraining and they have low strength to weight ratio..

but definitly not all of them, how to say this...chances are a bodybuilder can kick any martial artists ass sometimes even if hes in ufc and the likes for two reasons:
1.hes bigger , no weigth classes here
2.hes stronger
of the martial artist had actualyl some real fights it's possible to beat the bodybuilder if he has 0 fighting expiriance , but it's hard to beat down someone your strikes have no effect on and you cant grapple with...

powerlifters and the like just break ur skull and kill u with one punch :)

okey enough joking for now

[speedy]

bodybuilders are too scared of overtraining and they have low strength to weight ratio..

but definitly not all of them, how to say this...chances are a bodybuilder can kick any martial artists ass sometimes even if hes in ufc and the likes for two reasons:
1.hes bigger , no weigth classes here
2.hes stronger
of the martial artist had actualyl some real fights it's possible to beat the bodybuilder if he has 0 fighting expiriance , but it's hard to beat down someone your strikes have no effect on and you cant grapple with...

powerlifters and the like just break ur skull and kill u with one punch :)

okey enough joking for now

I disagree with most if not all you said. Why? Well let's start with a powerlifter. All the strength in the world can only help so much. There is more to a punch then just strength. Fighters/martial artists learn to train to throw that kind of punch, where powerlifters don't. I for one would think that chances are a powerlifter will throw from strength while I am sure will hurt, won't hurt nearly as much if thrown with proper technique. So hurting someone badly with one punch assuming w/out technique, I seriously doubt.
Now about bodybuilders and shit, muscles can only do so much. If you are not "conditioned" for fighting, the strikes you recevie will hurt.
Now there also a size/weight ratio, so comparing a small person to a big huge person would not be a good comparison. But if you take people equal in size and weight (give or take inches and lbs) the technique will be the dominate IMHO.

[koltz]

many powerlifters are also top UFC fighters. and a lot of powerliftign programs rely on training explosive speed as well as max strength

erm if you take the same size thigny I agree but will a bodybuilder be the same size as a 140lb martial artist? I don't think so

ofcource when you have a 250lb martial artist, he HAS to either train with weights or do bodyweigth stuff like keii rolups , full range HSPU one arm chins etc not the 10000s of pushups and bw squats. and he HAS to eat well.

Personal experience here.

I sparr 3 times a week.
My friend is a traditional power lifter- DL,BP,Squat.
I taught him few basics and tried to sparr with him. He got no wind. Can't move around, isn't aware in space. Keep in mind he lifts at least 2.5 times more than I can.
So forget sparring. We grappled. He doesn't know what he is doing, he can't use his strength, which is not aimed at fighting anyway.
We are almost same size, but he is much "stronger" in three specific lifts.
So what?

[Heathen warrior]

Rock climbing is pretty cool. Besides the obvious workout is the drama of saving yourself from falling through your own immediate actions - it's about ultimate responsibility.

Some of the experienced climbers I've seen are built. I have no idea if that's because they do supplemental training or not.

[Drunken Panda]

There is not an exercise I can think of that uses more muscles than swimming. Granted you will be slimmer, but hey, if you want to be big, eat more and lift more, but then that is not bodyweight training.

I agree with the swimming point. A wonderful exercise for the entire body that is also kind to your joints and helps develop your breathing.

Without wishing to fly off on a tangent, I'll just say that you can eat more and get big with bodyweight training. I have and am doing so now. And I'm still relatively slim. Resistance is resistance and fuel is fuel. You've just got to know what your doing (be intelligent with your training/nutrition choices etc.) - but it's utterly possible.

[Moonduck]

A powerlifter, or power bodybuilder (as rare as those are) were properly trained, they would be viscious in MMA. We've already seen it in fact. Tank Abbot was well-known, successful in the UFC, and a powerlifter. There's videos of him bench pressing something obscene like 600+lbs. When he hit people, they noticed.

The commonly held idea that martial artists don't need strength is just ludicrous. Pound for pound, the stronger fighter will have a distinct advantage in MMA style settings. I've personally been in plenty of sparring matches where strength was easily the determining factor. Sure, conditioning is probably more important, and speed is easily a major factor, but strength is far too underrated by most martial artists.

It is equally ludicrous to say that strength training lowers speed and flexibility, when the opposite is the case when it is done properly.

[Sepanto]

All other things being equal the stronger man will win.
However i know a guy who's day and night at the gym, weights 101 Kilograms, and got his ass kicked by a 61 kilograms karate blackbelt. Strength and skill compliment eachother, but in the fight of only strength against only skill i believev skill will win.

[Moonduck]

Strength and skill compliment eachother, but in the fight of only strength against only skill i believev skill will win.

Meh. It's situational. The skill levels have to be truly disparate for this to be the case. An untrained, uncoordinated brute can be stomped flat by a supremely-skilled, lightning flat martial artist, but all it takes is one mistake on the part of th emartial artist.

Years ago I was part of a Kenpo group. One of the student-instructors was a woman of average build in her early 40's. She was one of the most skilled people in the group (insofar as student-instructors were concerned), yet she regularly lost to me in sparring matches. Am I bragging? No. I'm a large guy, moderately quick for my size, and rather aggressive. If I can't do well in a sparring match against a 40 year old woman half my size, there is something very wrong with me. She was the one that requested me as a sparring partner because she specifically wanted to work against the largest, strongest person in the group. I agree with this, as I am more motivated when facing people bigger than I am.

Still, her speed and skill advantage only worked so long as she had loads of room to move. When she failed to keep perfect situational awareness, by getting backed into acorner for example, things got very bad for her.

Yes, this was sparring, not a real fight (thank god, she cheated hard when she was pressed, and more than once I had to defend against groin shots in "friendly" sparring). But the disparate size problem is not always countered by disparate skill. She was a significant;y better martial artist than I was, I was just a better fighter for reasons of size, strength, reach, aggression, etc.

Still, there's always the exception to anything. Using the UFC as an example, the bigger guy doesn't always win. In fact the bigger guy usually doesn't win in the really serious size mismatches. Marco Ruas vs Paul Varlans for example. There is a certain level of competition where skill is the real deciding factor, but only when there's major differences. Ruas v Varlans is a good example of a gross mismatch in size/strength being overcome by a gross mismatch in skill.

In short, I'm agreeing with you, just saying that the level of mismatch needed for this to work is uncommon. You only have to be somewhat bigger than the other guy to have a solid advantage, whereas you have to be a LOT more skilled than the other guy to come up with a similar level of advantage.

[koltz]

All other things being equal the stronger man will win.
However i know a guy who's day and night at the gym, weights 101 Kilograms, and got his ass kicked by a 61 kilograms karate blackbelt. Strength and skill compliment eachother, but in the fight of only strength against only skill i believev skill will win.
actually a skillfull weakling will get 1 hit KOed and not be able to do any damage even with 200 rounds

but you said somethign in the lines of "someoen with decent strength and skill and someone with no skill and strength" well that's not smart

[skavenger]

to get this a little more on topic... I climb. That's mostly all I do in terms of activities requiring strength. It's definately better exercise for developing pure strength than anything else I can think of.

As an interesting aside, my current roommate who is also a climber beat an NFL linebacker in armwrestling multiple times with both arms while weighing a mere 160 lbs. It's all about coordinated explosive effort with minimal waste. The absolute zenith of human physical ability.

[Moonduck]

Pure strength? What's that? Serious question.

Personally, I look at strength as maximal strength, speed-strength, and strength-endurance. I also define in terms of planes and movements. Someone may have great vertical pulling strength (such as a climber), but have poor rotational strength in the horizontal plane (most bodybuilders). They may have excellent speed-strength, but comparatively poor maximal force output (a basketball player that does not weight train, for instance)

[skavenger]

Strength applicable to real world situations. It's all usable. There is no excess. There is no waste. Every muscle is a fine tuned mechanism that can be used with the utmost effectiveness.

Obviously "pure strength" is going to be seen as a rather arbitrary term. It is. Functional strength may be a better term but it's still all there. Check some google videos of Chris Sharma climbing, you'll see what I mean.

[Moonduck]

I understand what rock climbers can do. A friend invited me to the local "Rock Gym" and it thoroughly kicked my ass. I'm not arguing about the strength aspect of climbing, just arguing about the term "pure strength". Functional Strength is only a bit better, but that's only because a bunch of twits have loaded the term with images of doing curls with undersized dumbbells while balanced on a wobble (for no apprent reason).

then again, I may just be being pedantic here.

[plancheismine]

rock climbing is hellu good for back, bicepes, and forearms. 8)

[bklynfirefighter]

Rock climbers have to be very strong.....just look at the moves they make in their climbing. A lot of pulling and controlling their bodyweight.
I don't think that a bodybuilder could do the strength moves that a rock climber does.

[Moonduck]

Most bodybuilders can't do pull-ups. The average bodybuilder is all show, no go. Whenever you see someone with 19"+ arms curling a 35lb dumbbell, you know something is wrong, yet that's normal for too many bodybuilders.

[cheesedog]

To bad people found they could get large muscles by doing lots of light pumping exercises from lots of angles and directions instead of lifting heavy weights and getting strong. Not to say that all bodybuilders are weak for their size, some are quite strong, but most of the one's I know are mostly show without much go. A couple of powerlifters I know though, are almost scary strong.

[Moonduck]

Ronnie Coleman is a human crane. I may think he looks horrific, but, damn, dude can lift. Dorian Yates could lift like a hydraulic ram too. John Grimek was unbelievable. The majority of them, however, are weak-ass puds for as big as they are.

[cheesedog]

I tend to divide bodybuilders into two time periods, the "physical culturists" like Grimek and others who lifted to be strong and healthy, a time period mostly from the early 1900"s until the proliferation of steriods and other "bodybuilding" drugs, and from the 60's or so when the drugs became so prevelant. For so many it's not about health anymore, just getting huge.

I have lots of respect for natural bodybuilders, even though it's not an interest of mine. Just can't respect users as much, no matter how big and strong they are.

[Moonduck]

Have to agree with you there. The physical culturists are the ones I look up to. Bodybuilders, meh.Eugen Sandow, Arthur Saxon, Maxick, etc