Can you get really good with BW exercises? For fighting.

What is the best body weight work out for Boxing and MMA.
I heard that Mike Tyson did allot of body weight exercises. Any idea which one's.

My second question, can you get as good with BW exercise as you would with weights?

I am sure that you can.
It is just that many body weight exericise are skills themselves.
For example it takes a while to learn how to do handstand push ups.
But you can get a barbell and do military presses.

Which leads me to another question, which I am about to make into a separate thread.

Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Do you think ancient fighters could take on our modern fighters?

[guitarzan56]

Most of the UFC guys do as much bodyweight training as anything else they do.

Power calisthenics, DVRs, Isometrics, etc, will all contribute to being a better fighter. Of course, cardio is extremely important as well and is the one part of training that bores the daylights out of me, but I need the most!

Most of the UFC guys do as much bodyweight training as anything else they do.

Power calisthenics, DVRs, Isometrics, etc, will all contribute to being a better fighter. Of course, cardio is extremely important as well and is the one part of training that bores the daylights out of me, but I need the most!

What kind of cardio do you do that's boring?

[guitarzan56]

I usually use the treadmill. We don't have a long running/walking season here in Syracuse (sometimes it even snows in May).

I'm the type of guy who yells at the microwave to hurry up and is fascinated by bright, shiny objects, so repetitive motion justs saps the motivation right out of me.

I would probably be best served by participating in sports like basketball or soccer ( I think they are both excellent for cardio fitness), but I work in retail management for a large music store, teach guitar, and play in three bands (it's tough to earn a living around here) which leaves me barely enough time for martial arts, isometrics, and DVRs. The other downside is I would have to learn those sports! I was a football guy in school and that was about it for me as far as mainstream sports went.

[TO]

When Tyson was in jail, I read that he did lots of squats. He'd use a deck of playing cards, squat, pick up a card, squat, stack the card, squat, pick up new card, squat, etc.

As for the effectiveness of bodyweight training for fighting, I'd also read that in order to try-out for some open MMA tournaments you'd have to do 500 body weight squats, 100-200 push-ups, and a similar number of sit-ups for time. You won't get this kind of muscle endurance from conventional iron pumping. If this is the minimum fitness level for these fighters, that's good enough for me.

[Rick]

Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Do you think ancient fighters could take on our modern fighters?

Absolutely, no question. People were so much tougher back in those days it is absolutely pathetic how much the physical strength of men declined from the olden days. I'll bet any one of our modern fighters would get ass whuped by guys like "farmer burns", Frank Gotch, Ed "the Strangler" Lewis, or Kimura.

[koltz]

well there was that bruce lee guy... some people say he was only an actor but if you move like him I bet you can hit somewhat hard can't ya? and he did tons of BW stuff

Ok, here is the deal. I was researching this question for at least ten years now.

Two guys working on over head presses. One does free standing hand stand presses on two chairs and the other does poundage of over head presses.
Obviously one will not be able to do what the other one can do.

Who most likely will win the strong man competition? The metal lifting guy? We know that.
What about fighting who will win? Eitherone can win. The bodyweight handstand pressing guy will not be as strong as someone who shoulder presses 2 times their body weight. But the BW guy still has more than enough strength, that if he uses it correctly he can win a fight.

There you go. :-k

[koltz]

The one whos more skilled will win.
even if he can't overhead press half of his weight

but there are crazy progressions to over head presses that quite frankly are inhuman but within the reach of someone who can press 2x BW overhead(as if htat;s any human lol)

[Appleman]

The one whos more skilled will win.
even if he can't overhead press half of his weight

but there are crazy progressions to over head presses that quite frankly are inhuman but within the reach of someone who can press 2x BW overhead(as if htat;s any human lol)

The skilled one usually wins, but strength never hurt anyone.

Speaking of the army, how much strength does it take to have a good aim and to shoot? Yet they still want you to be strong.
P.S. Probably bad example. :?

[bobster_ice]

Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

[koltz]

Ross lifts a LOT.

infact on the cover of one of his books hes doing a one arm dumbell sntach.

and the does a lot of jump rope, isn't that lifting?

[bobster_ice]

Yeah but he dosnt do benchpress and stuff, yes he still lifts things like medicine balls and stuff but I dont think he lifts big stuff.

[koltz]

http://www.rosstraining.com/infiniteintensity.html

Thoose dumbells look like there 80lbs each at least maybe 100...
pretty big ,

nevertheless a lot of top MMA fighters bench over 600 for example tank abbot, resistance is resistance be it a weight or your own body

[Antaeus]

Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross does both and his physique shows it.

Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross does both and his physique shows it.

Yes, but Fureys physique shows nothing. :?

[speedy]

Physique also consists of how much you eat, and burn in your workouts. Comparing by looks alone is the wrong way to go. I judge by what they can do. Personally, I am ver leary about Furey with all the negative shit about him floating around. Also, the pricies he charge for the things he charges them for are really outrageous.

Let's not forget. MF or RE they are not waisting their time with those books or video just to have fun. Everyone needs to eat. They are here to make money. It is more apperant with Furey than with Ross, but at the end it's the same. They do what they believe will sell. Furey has this pictures of himself when he was in shape. This picture is probably old, but he uses it. If he could be in great shape, he would use those pictures too.
Everyone does what they believe will bring the most income.

I would like to point to Monks, most endolge in bodyweight training and yet they can fight very well.

[quote="

I would like to point to Monks, most endolge in bodyweight training and yet they can fight very well.[/quote]

Are you sure Furey did not train the Monks in his secret methods of combat ? :lol:

[speedy]

Sounds like Howard Stern when he begins to rant on how he invented everything.

I may be 100% wrong. It just sounds like the guy took his hobby of working out and somehow made busness out of it. Package info and sell it.

[speedy]

If he did that or not, I don't see any reason to look down on it. To me my workouts is a hobby, but with benefits.

[koltz]

Well ross has expiriance on working out he has the kind of body the main part of the population would want to have so he made a few books about it there stuff there that's worth paying for if you are stupid and can't figure out moves to trian each part of the body on your own(like made rollups up , by the way the tendons on my pecs are sore for two days now jsut after 2 sets , Iwould reccomend thoose but I deleted the thread on them =\)

Well ross has expiriance on working out he has the kind of body the main part of the population would want to have so he made a few books about it there stuff there that's worth paying for if you are stupid and can't figure out moves to trian each part of the body on your own(like made rollups up , by the way the tendons on my pecs are sore for two days now jsut after 2 sets , Iwould reccomend thoose but I deleted the thread on them =\)

What roll ups?

[koltz]

It's a move I made up for the pecs , doing it for full ROM w\ two arms is harder then perfect one arm pushups I made a lot of explanations about how the move works from a lto of tests Ive made with this(And I am darn sore after them lol)
it's a good move thats easy to do for the weak or stronger ppl just by doign different parts of the range of motion

but it never go any serious attention or people trying it so I deleted it (the thread now is edited and what I could delete i did) to keep it for myself , I will probably post this when the forums get more active / we get to know the admins more they don't talk much only on PMs =\

It's a move I made up for the pecs , doing it for full ROM w\ two arms is harder then perfect one arm pushups I made a lot of explanations about how the move works from a lto of tests Ive made with this(And I am darn sore after them lol)
it's a good move thats easy to do for the weak or stronger ppl just by doign different parts of the range of motion

but it never go any serious attention or people trying it so I deleted it (the thread now is edited and what I could delete i did) to keep it for myself , I will probably post this when the forums get more active / we get to know the admins more they don't talk much only on PMs =\

I tried it bro. That's the one with arms comming out to the sides in push up position with dumbells in both arms?
If you want to know what happened- My outter pecs got unbelievable sore and I did not try it again. :(
It's good stuff though.
Here is something I will do, you may try it as well.
Do dumbell push ups, and move the hands out more and more and do push ups like that. At least maybe that a good way to warm up for it.

[koltz]

Nice idea for db pushups. it seems there isn't really a limit to what you can do with your bodyweight some stuff to hold on to and a creative mind :D

Also outer pecs don't exist , but I had them sore too I came up with a move that trains inexsistent muscle fibers :o

Haha,
when people say outer pecs, they mean the pectoralis tendon which is at the insertion into the humerus.

[Wraith]

Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross does both and his physique shows it.

Yes, but Fureys physique shows nothing. :?

http://www.knockoutmarketing.com/images/furey_waterfall.jpg

He looks to have some sizable pecs there.

Let's not forget Fedor who also does bodyweight exercises...

http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn2005082700124200020612m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200508/im00020612.jpg

Haha
Fefor?

The man can fight, but is no model. I guess he doesn't do the BW in such a way to show off his body.

[koltz]

His arms appear tio be 17 or 16 inches... maybe not an underwear model but hes got tons of mass for a BW trainee

oh and the pecs on that other guy above feder are uneven ...

You can be in much better shape with BW exercises than those two guys.
Furey is middle age, I don't know how old Fedor is.

[Wraith]

I don't know exactly what you mean by in better shape, cause from a performance perspective, Fedor is then in incredible shape. I am guessing you mean looks in good shape.

Here's a link to a pic of a guy who does purely bodyweight exercises. His workout is a bit insane, like 3 sets of 1000 calf raises, and 3 sets of 100 push-ups.

http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2265

I don't know exactly what you mean by in better shape, cause from a performance perspective, Fedor is then in incredible shape. I am guessing you mean looks in good shape.

Here's a link to a pic of a guy who does purely bodyweight exercises. His workout is a bit insane, like 3 sets of 1000 calf raises, and 3 sets of 100 push-ups.

http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2265

F1 Posts here too. lol
Fedor may be a better fighter, but most people rather look like F1.

[Danootje]

well; if i got to believe the book i just downloaded.. yes you can..

i'm doing 3 days thaiboxing and on the other days i do bodyweight exercises at home; which really make me alot stronger!

hindu squats & hindu pushups(!) should be done a lot in my opinion!

you might want to take a look at the book of matt furey: combat condition
you can download it with limewire.

[crazydan]

the guy above fedor is matt furey. and that picture was taken while he was still lifting weights.

[crisgaecar]

when you speak of being strong doing squat Hindu and Hindu pushup, you will only win strenght endurance. but you forget max strength, speed strength, explosive strength.
I in my training incorporate everything, max stremgth (one arm pushup, one arm pullup, pistol, isometric training), strenght endurance (bodyweight squat, burpees, pushup, pullup), explosive strenght (plyo pushup, jump squat, jump lunge, depht plyo pushup, power over, clapping pullup), speed strength (isometric workout for speed).
since you see you can incorporate more exercises to have major profit.

[cheesedog]

To crisgaecar:

I like what you wrote above but I have one question. How do you do an isometric workout for speed-strength?

[crazydan]

IMO. you should incorporate everything. Weights, bodyweight, Isos, etc

[crisgaecar]

To crisgaecar:

I like what you wrote above but I have one question. How do you do an isometric workout for speed-strength?

I use three types of protocols for the isometric trainings:
1.-maximum effort isometric
2.-explosive isometric (for speed)
3.-static dinamic isometric

the exposive isometric:
it consists of generating the biggest possible tension for short periods of time (ex-, 1 to 3 second). the target is to accelerate with the biggest force and possible speed.
this type of training is very effective to gain speed in your handles and kicks, I use it with another purpose (I do not practise combat sport).

[crazydan]

how do you do the other 2?

[crisgaecar]

maximum effort isometric:se applies the biggest tension on a structure inmobil, it is necessary to generate tension rapidly and it is necessary to support for periods from 3 until 5 seconds.

static dynamic isometric: it is the combination of isometric and dynamic work, you must begin with an isometric brief work (3 to 5 seconds of wall press), followed of explosive dynamic work (plyo pushup), the parentisis are only examples

[crazydan]

o alright thanks. How mnany days a week do you do isometrics? also how many days do you do each type of isometrics?

[crisgaecar]

o alright thanks. How mnany days a week do you do isometrics? also how many days do you do each type of isometrics?

it depends on that period of my training, but isometric work realized 2 to 4 days a week

[Razor]

Is it safe to do isometrics on an off day from bw training when I do only 2 sets of exercises? Or does it stop the muscles from resting?

[crisgaecar]

Is it safe to do isometrics on an off day from bw training when I do only 2 sets of exercises? Or does it stop the muscles from resting?

you can do isometric in the same day that you trained, but you have 2 options,
1.-isometric training immediately after your training
2.-isometric training 8 hours after your training (it is more advisable), remembers that a workout of isometric must not last any more than 10 min (it removes very little time)

[musclemat]

Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Do you think ancient fighters could take on our modern fighters?

hell yeah.they were tougher. they didnt spend time on treadmills, or twisting around with medecine balls.
ancient fighters ran up hills, climbed mountains, ran with rocks and used tree trunks as punch bags.

[crazydan]

do you know this for a fact? im just wondering? i really am interested Im actually gonna look it up now.